Re: going to try SGII (long)

> Date: 	 Fri, 06 Mar 1998 08:40:53 -0500
> From: 	 Andy Skinner <askinner@avs.com>
> Reply-to:	 FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
> Organization:  Advanced Visual Systems
> To:		 FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
> Subject:	 Re: going to try SGII (long)

> Stuff:
> Wow, the number of things you can do when your leader activates other
> units!  I see why KR suggested not taking support weapons with my
> commander--he's really better off just being used for extra
> activations.	I'm still glad I didn't take specialists I don't know
what
> to do with yet, but neither of our commanders' units played any part
in
> actual firing.  I guess I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of
> limitation, like his activating a unit gives them one action, not an
> entire activation; or a commander can't activate the same unit twice. 
> But I guess that's what the leaders are for.
> 
> The "robots" I'll call a support Heavy PA guy, since that's how I used
> them.  They're GW robot figs, but I don't usually care that much about
> what they're intended to be.	So I used them as the support guys for
the
> heavy PA squad on my side, and 3 of them made up her H PA squad.
> 
> We did take the rule that one of those guys could shoot one weapon in
> one action, and the other in another action.	For instance, mine added
> his small arms fire into the squads during one action, then fired the
> support weapon during the second action.  I'd still like to know
whether
> this is against the letter of the rules, since the rule says you can't
> fire a "weapon" twice in an activation.  Is it against the spirit? 

Yes, this is still a "squad" game and you are still asking if an 
INDIVIDUAL can fire!!  The game is really about the fire power 
elements in the squad (that is the resource the squad leader is 
trained to use).  In an NAC line squad for instance, the squad leader 
has at his disposal a number of fire elements.	So many men armed 
with assualt fires, one GMS/P, one SAW.  He makes fire assignments 
for the activation based on his elements, not the secondary weapons 
in his grunts' possession.  When he wants to put maximum fire on an 
enemy squad he MAY have the GMS/P put aside his launcher for an 
activation and use his assualt rifle, but the idea that he would fire 
both is not in the cards.

 If
> it was intended to be a Rambo guy with a big gun in his arms and a
small
> gun at his holster, I'd say yes.  As a H PA guy, I'm not sure. 
Pictures
> of PA in the book look more intimidating than most of my models, some
> like little battlemechs.  I'm not sure what they're capable of, with
all
> this stuff on them.  This guy has a big gun on his head, and another
on
> his arm.  My original question was could he add both to the squad's
> fire, since that would not be using the same weapon twice.  Then I
> thought maybe I'd limit it and say no, but he could use them in
> different actions, though now I think this is not really more
limiting. 
> Maybe it makes more sense to say he could add both to squad fire or
> shoot his support weapon at another target, not both.  I'm not trying
to
> break the spririt of the game, but I'm not sure this (Heavy PA) guy
> isn't capable of using both.	However, a game note: I think this is
one
> reason why we spent all our activations shooting.  He could add his
> regular firepower to squad firing, and his support weapon in another
> action, and it was hard to pass up.

But he can't he uses one weapon or the other for the activation - 
really you are creating the unit of Rambo's!!!

  If he had had to make a choice, I
> think I would have added his support weapon to the squad fire and then
> moved or done something else with the other action.  Maybe, the squad
I
> have in mind was in hard cover, so maybe would have just stayed put.
> 
> The Space Marine army wasn't chosen as all PA because I thought it
would
> win.	I just wanted to make armies from the minis I have.  They were
> very obviously vulnerable, and when I give them a healthy helping of
> opposition, Owen is right that they take a lot of suppression.  That's
> fine.  However, sometimes I view these guys as more like Star Wars
> stormtroopers, so maybe they'll turn into Full Suit Light Armor. 
Except
> I like the relationship of regular guys as Light PA,	terminators as
> Heavy PA.
> 
> I hope it is clear that just because I'm using GW figures, I'm not a
> teenage min-maxer munchkin fan-boy.  (I'm a 33 year old min-maxer
> munchkin fanboy :-)  I'm using the figures because I've got them,
> they're cheap (when used as I'm using them) for an interesting variety
> of neat figs, and I like science-fiction stuff to look sorta far-out. 
I
> wouldn't give two weapons to any old trooper, just because they're
> muscley, but I did get some agreements that with a powered armor guy
> this might be possible.  I have not looked at the close assault rules
> yet, and I've heard PA does well there.  I still have trouble relating
> to close assault, rather than shooting from a safer distance.  (And
yes,
> I _am_ using GW figs.  :-)  I'm not using the PA because I think I can
> always win with them.  I hope to have several armies and switch off
> which ones I'm using, and give the PA plenty of challenges.
> 
> Questions:
> 1) I'm not sure about just what the word "weapon" means in the rule
that
> no weapon may be fired twice.  Does it mean a particular piece of
metal,
> in a particular guy's hands?	Or does it mean a kind of weapon?

That particular fire "element"

  For
> example (and sorry if I missed it in the rules--some things in their
are
> spread out over several pages and I don't see them), can I split my
> small arms fire into two actions?  With the first meaning of weapon, I
> can put 2 guys' weapons against one squad in one action, and 3 guys'
> weapons against another squad in another action.  With the meaning
that
> "weapon" in this case means their regular rifles as a kind of weapon,
> then they can only shoot that kind of weapon in one action during
their
> activation.  Which is it?

No, don't do that.  When we play SGII at the club we let the players 
choose to split fire during activation, but squad fire (i.e. assualt 
rifle fire is ALL done in one action at a given target.  Then in the 
second action the SAW can fire at a different target on his own.  

Quit min/maxing and munching or you're doomed to 
fire power games forever!!

> 
> 2) I had a question about "in position" markers, but I found the
answer.
> :)
> 
> 3) Do you make a decision about whether a move is normal or a combat
> move, or does the situation (as judged by both players) always
> determine?  Or both, in that if the situation is obviously under fire
> you make a combat move, in other situations you decide?

Combat moves are ONLY mandatory for close assualt.  At all other 
times they are strictly optional and quite a gamble.  We force 
players (I believe its in the rules somewhere) to pick up one of 
their squad counters and place it on the position they want to reach 
by combat move.  Then they get to die roll x2 to see how far they go 
IN A STRAIGHT LINE!! from where they started to where the counter was 
placed.  If they end movement out in the open in sight of the enemy, 
"c'est la guerre!!"

> 
> 4) If you get more potential hits than there are figures in the target
> squad, do the potential hits get applied more than once to those
> figures?

Yes, and you most roll location for each hit (everyone could have 
aimed at the same figure!)  If the same figure is hit multiple times, 
make multiple impact rolls vs. his armor
> 
> I took some pictures.  If they look OK and I can get a friend to scan
> them, I'll put them on my web site.  (www.avs.com/~askinner--you can
see
> some of my epic stuff by following the pic link.  Also a neat hill I
> made.)
> 
> -- 
> Andy Skinner
> askinner@avs.com
> 
>