C l o a k i n g . . .

On Thursday, December 18, 1997 7:40 PM, Michael Sandy
[SMTP:mehawk@cnnw.net] 
wrote:

Soon this discussion will r e - c l o a k . . .

Having read the discussion, there are two technologies
from different backgrounds

Firstly Star Trek
=============

> Also, Star Trek is remarkably inconsistent about
> whether Klingon ships can be targeted while cloaked.

The Star Trek Cloaking device, yep its inconsistent
but there is enough general concensus about
what it does. I think it owns the term 'cloak' as they
came up with it or at least made it popular. I think
we have to accept it as portrayed.

>> It is very hard to develop game mechanics for cloaks
> if you have to make them consistent with all Star Trek
> episodes because the show concentrates on the neato
> new way the Federation is going to beat the Klingons
> or Romulans at the end of the episode.
>

I don't use the FT cloak rules exactly for ST as they
are not in keeping with 'balance of terror'
technology. I don't try to keep them consistent
with every episode I use 'balance of terror'
as the cannonical source.

If you've played Star Fleet Academy they
do cloaks as they should be and are
consistent with the general background.

>
> If a cloaked ship is in Real space, and can be affected
> by any or all of the following:  Debris, Area effect
> weapons, mines you are going to have to somehow plot
> its movement.  You could have three separate maps, one
> for what one player sees, one for what the other player
> sees, and one for what the referee sees.

Yes you have to plot cloaked ships, having them
on the board rather gives the game away. Its not
a big deal for a few ships. Putting a datum down
where a ship cloaked can help.

> If a cloaked ship isn't in Real Space the mechanics
> become extremely consistent.	You can't scan or fire
> from cloak because you aren't in the same universe as
> your target.	A cloaked ship is just as immune as one
> in FTL.  Speaking of which, if gravity wells limit
> where you can go FTL, do gravity wells limit where you
> can cloak, if you are using a Subspace PSB for cloaking?
>

For phased cloaks, in the 'Pegasus' the big E could
see from the phased cloak to drive out of the
asteroid and up the Romulan's nose. Its in the
same universe but its quantum particles are out of
phase with the rest of matter, whatever.

We'll agree the ST VI cloak was a plot device/prototype
and ignore it.

>>
> Having to get a +1 (or whatever) on a sensor lock for
> each ship, for each turn that you want to fire on a
> cloaked ship is a pretty steep limitation, and would
> be close to the more playable Star Trek episodes.  Even
> when the Enterprise-D was facing some really old cloaked
> ships she had a difficult time targetting them.

For detection, movement is the factor to use as that
is what consistently gave the game away.

For attack mostly area effect weapons (depth charges)
mines, plasma cannons, proximity torpedoes
Blanketing with beams weapons could be simulated,
with a range modifier or some other device

The gas homing torp in ST VI was a plot device so could ignore it.

>
> Passive scanning shouldn't affect a ship's stealth, nor
> be affected adversely by it.	A submarine on quiet mode
> gets a lot of use out of its passive sonar.

I'd agree that active scans should give it away, bearing
but not distance.

> There is a lot I don't understand about the Star Trek
> cloak and Star Trek scanners for that matter.  Whatever
> they use for scanning appears to propagate at much faster
> than light, or else they couldn't scan ships at Warp.

ST scanners use sub-space which is faster than warp
technology. Cloaks bend light. I wouldn't  look for a basis in
reality here and its illogical captain.

Secondly Stealth
==============
Here we have proper stealth technology, this is probably
more realistic and based on emission control and hiding
in space. this is what we find in Honor Harrington and
the Weber Starfire stuff. ECM etc fit into this
background and technology.

So I'd amend my proposed systems as

1) ST Cloaks
   i)  light bending/obscurement
       o you can see where you're going
	 o passive scans don't allow detection
       o movement/active scan allows detection (bearing only)
       o must decloak to fire
       o no basis in reality

   ii) phased
       o you can see where you're going
       o must decloak to fire
       o passive scans/movement/active scan don't allow detection
       o its banned
       o no basis in reality

2) Stealth
   o ECM reveals prescence but not position, minimises detection
   o Emission control (EMCON) minimises detection
   o Passive scans don't allow detection
   o firing/active scans allow detection
   o basis in reality

sincerely
tim jones
--
Reality is for those who can't cope with Science Fiction.