Rewriting gzg-uture..

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Thanks to Jon for throwing us all a bone.

I'd like to think we'd act like we had the same licence Larry Given gave
other writers when he threw known space/man kzin wars open to other
writers:

"Have fun but don't break the playground equipment"

Liberal use of PSB and Handwavium etc (this includes NorAm being
safeguarded
by the Crown - as an Aussie this is sheer Tuffley Genius; PT Barnum
would be
proud!)

Personally I wouldn't revise anything.. there is much room to move and
create within the currently established backgrounds.

Traveller went down the path of constant revision and it balkanized the
game
players and system both.

Full Thrust's strength *is* its fungibility and lack or at least studied
disregard of canonical backgrounds.

Let's all grab a brush and add/embellish to what's gone before but not
kill
the goose.
On 22/10/2011 3:24 AM, <gzg-d-request@firedrake.org> wrote:

> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> gzg-d Digest				  Volume 2011 : Issue 47
>
> Today's Topics:
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzg.com> ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ VinsFullThrust@aol.com ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzg.com> ]
>  Re: Rot Hafen Saga			 [ Robert Makowsky <
> rmakowsky@yahoo.co ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Indy <indy.kochte@gmail.com>
]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzg.com> ]
>  Gaming is declining.. I think not	 [ "bobdea" <bobdea@terra.es> ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Aaron Teske
<mithramuse@yahoo.com>
> ]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Indy <indy.kochte@gmail.com>
]
>  Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (fu  [ Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzg.com> ]
>
> Administrivia:
> Administrivia:
> mail gzg-d-unsubscribe@firedrake.org to leave the GZG Digest
> archives at http://lists.firedrake.org/gzg/
> in case of problems, contact listmaster@firedrake.org
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:08:25 +0100
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-Id: <a05210655cac6c9b937bb@[192.168.1.100]>
>
> >  > How do folks feel about "rewriting history", not in the Stalinist
> >sense of course, but in terms of making some revisions and changes
> >to a few of the events already written into the "canon" of the GZG
> >>  universe?
> >
> >Without wishing to sound *too* bitchy, after the essential business
> >of designing, moulding, and shipping minis is done, releasing the
> >revised editions of the existing rulesets, and *any* finished
> >version of FMAS, should be a higher priority for any spare energy
> >than the background fluff IMNSHO.
> [snip]
>
> Just to reiterate for clarity, this is NOT the situation - the
> question was asked so that all you guys could kick the ideas around,
> precisely so that I don't have to! It's for generating interesting
> list discussion only, and will not affect anything else I'm doing.
> :-)
>
> Jon (GZG)
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 03:25:05 -0400 (EDT)
> From: VinsFullThrust@aol.com
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-ID: <16f9e.1c8f0f9c.3bd27851@aol.com>
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2011 3:08:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> jon@gzg.com writes:
>
> >  > How do folks feel about "rewriting history", not in  the
Stalinist
> >sense of course, but in terms of making some revisions  and changes
> >to a few of the events already written into the "canon" of  the GZG
> >>  universe?
> >
> >Without wishing to sound  *too* bitchy, after the essential business
> >of designing, moulding, and	shipping minis is done, releasing the
> >revised editions of the existing  rulesets, and *any* finished
> >version of FMAS, should be a higher	priority for any spare energy
> >than the background fluff  IMNSHO.
> [snip]
>
> Just to reiterate for clarity, this is NOT the  situation - the
> question was asked so that all you guys could kick the  ideas around,
> precisely so that I don't have to! It's for generating  interesting
> list discussion only, and will not affect anything else I'm  doing.
> :-)
>
> Jon (GZG)
>
>
>
>
>
> What exactly are you asking Jon? I feel little confuzzled on what is
being
> asked here.
>
> Vince
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:05:29 +0100
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-Id: <a05210656cac6d66e3212@[192.168.1.100]>
>
> >textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 10/21/2011 3:08:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >jon@gzg.com writes:
> >
> >>   > How do folks feel about "rewriting history", not in  the
Stalinist
> >>sense of course, but in terms of making some revisions  and changes
> >>to a few of the events already written into the "canon" of	the GZG
> >>>	universe?
> >>
> >>Without wishing to sound  *too* bitchy, after the essential business
> >>of designing, moulding, and  shipping minis is done, releasing the
> >>revised editions of the existing  rulesets, and *any* finished
> >>version of FMAS, should be a higher  priority for any spare energy
> >>than the background fluff  IMNSHO.
> >[snip]
> >
> >Just to reiterate for clarity, this is NOT the  situation - the
> >question was asked so that all you guys could kick the  ideas around,
> >precisely so that I don't have to! It's for generating  interesting
> >list discussion only, and will not affect anything else I'm	doing.
> >:-)
> >
> >Jon (GZG)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >What exactly are you asking Jon? I feel little confuzzled on what is
being
> >asked here.
> >
> >Vince
>
>
> Quite simply, Vince, I'm asking folks here on the list to discuss
> what aspects (if any) of the current GZG-verse canon they would
> change or rewrite, given the chance. I'm curious to see if any real
> consensus of opinion distills out of the discussion, but mainly it's
> just an exercise to allow everyone the chance to say what they do or
> don't like about it, and to get the list traffic flowing.
> There is no "hidden agenda" here, and whatever comes out of it with
> neither speed up nor slow down anything that I'm doing now, though of
> course any particularly good ideas may be useful in the future!
>
> Jon (GZG)
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Robert Makowsky <rmakowsky@yahoo.com>
> To: "gzg@firedrake.org" <gzg@firedrake.org>
> Subject: Re: Rot Hafen Saga
> Message-ID:
<1319192580.48193.YahooMailNeo@web160315.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
> Thanks Tom.
>
> I am still listening on this list.  I see Carlos on at least a monthly
> basis for gaming.
>
> Mostly doing historical gaming now.
>
> Bob Makowsky
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:35 PM
> Subject: Rot Hafen Saga
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
> Rot Hafen:
>
> 1. http://www.stargrunt.ca/articles_interest/rothafen/RotHaafen.pdf
> 2. I had started to transform it into a non-PDF web version, but I got
a
> bit
> stalled.
> http://www.stargrunt.ca/articles_interest/rothafen/rothafen_index.htm
> 3. Note there is an excellent mini-scenario here:
>
>
http://www.stargrunt.ca/scenarios_aar/scenario_flugs_rescue/scenario_flu
gs_rescue.htm
> I note the link in the navigation menu on the left to the same target
is
> incorrect. Really have to finish this work as I have time, whenever
that
> fantasy occurs.
> Have to get done preparing my FMAS or SG scenario with Damo for ECC
next.
>
> Los (Carlos Lourenco) is still around. Was in a magazine a year or so
ago
> for his work in the SF in a number of places, including the Balkans
hunting
> war criminals. I think his unit got a Presidential Unit Citation for
some
> of
> that work. He's now a hard working PD guy (logistical/IT support).
Busy
> bringing up the next generation - paintball, historical wargaming (Did
> Crete
> in 2mm or 6mm lately) and computer sims, and patrolling practice in
the
> woods - I think his plan for them is Ranger School or the NHL. :0)
>
> Carlos, Bob (Magic) Makowsky (CDR, USCG, ret.- now a famous helo
transport
> pilot for the rich and famous), Kurt (Weasel) Wasserman and some other
> friends of ours just had a big computer gaming get together this past
> weekend. Miniature gaming will happen at Bob's in the spring (likely
some
> WW1 Skirmish and WW2 Skirmish, but other options abound). I missed the
> weekend due to work commitments and my sadness has not abated....
>
> Tom B
>
> --
> Only solitary men know the full joys of friendship. Others have their
> family; but to a solitary and an exile, his friends are everything.* 
*--
> Willa Cather (1873 - 1947)Solitudinem fecerunt, pacem appelunt
> -- Publius Cornelius Tacitus (from the book Agricola, attributed to a
> speech
> from Calgacus)
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:55:32 -0400
> From: Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-ID: <CAA9wW+zmcJnTnZ-=
> hMpvAMBChVmhLs91XL_X3nj47XympU3ffg@mail.gmail.com>
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
> Jerry,
>
> Not sure if you are right or just working with bad data... :0)
>
> There are fewer LGS than their used to be, but in the same respect
their
> are
> fewer record, CD, and book stores. Do you really think our consumption
of
> music and books has declined?
>
> Bricks and mortar stores are expensive in that they require you to
maintain
> stocks. With on demand production (be that miniatures or game
printing) and
> PDFs being favoured in many cases (searchable!) for games, the reasons
for
> an LGS to exist are questionable. Even the boardgame sales have gone
online
> significantly.
>
> So, yes, this part of the business has changed. I think you hastily
> conclude
> this implies something larger about the hobby which I am not sure is
> supported.
>
> Counterpoints:
> - more miniature manufacturers and variety than I've ever seen before
by a
> far cry (but selling over the Internet)
> - major games conventions still seem to operate (if they are well
> managed.... half the problem in this area is mismanagement)
> - more rulesets available on the net for free or POD tor as PDF than
I've
> ever seen in times past
> - Plenty of blogs on miniatures gaming out there showing people
playing the
> games and a wider variety of games than in times past
> - more boardgame wargames available now than I've ever seen before
(but
> these are not your AH or SPI games... these have slick looking rules,
> boards, and modern boardgame design)
>
> If I had to presume a change, I would say:
> - miniatures gaming now has more variety so their is less
concentration in
> any one flavour
> - miniatures gaming does involve a lot of middle aged folk now, but
many of
> them are bringing their kids up into the mix
> - many of those kids are also from the domain of mobile gaming, of VR
> worlds, and of amazing computer games, so they may (as a concession to
your
> point) find miniatures gaming a bit mundane by that comparison
> - bricks and mortar stores for everything that you can get by mail
order
> are
> going away, except for in very major (or very boutique-ish) cases
>
> There probably is less of a flow of teens into the hobby, but things
like
> RPGs and D&D have also went from things that most people in the
generation
> would say 'what is that?' to things most people have seen or played.
This
> may not be entirely extensible to wargames, but if you've played any
of the
> recent flavours of D&D which are very miniatures heavy, you're pretty
close
> to a skirmish game.
>
> I think there is a lot of gaming going on out there with miniatures. I
> can't
> tell how much. I don't think the industry is in any danger of
disappearing
> given the number of people publishing rules and selling miniatures and
the
> number of articles on this stuff on the web. The people are ordering
> directly from suppliers and bricks and mortar stores and local gaming
> activity associated with them are in decline, but the games have also
gone
> a
> bit more mainstream in exposure and participation.
>
> Every gamer I know with kids is introducing his or her kids to it, so
that
> gives me a lot of optimism.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Only solitary men know the full joys of friendship. Others have their
> family; but to a solitary and an exile, his friends are everything.* 
*--
> Willa Cather (1873 - 1947)Solitudinem fecerunt, pacem appelunt
> -- Publius Cornelius Tacitus (from the book Agricola, attributed to a
> speech
> from Calgacus)
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:17:07 -0400
> From: Indy <indy.kochte@gmail.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-ID: <
> CABU2aEB9_fxjV5igzR0t4aFvMiZ-CsNv0FXK0wa2ks+RgNfurg@mail.gmail.com>
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > Not sure if you are right or just working with bad data... :0)
> >
>
> I wouldn't say bad data. I would suggest using a microcosm of data and
> applying it to the macrocosm of the system.  :-)
>
>
> >
> > There are fewer LGS than their used to be, but in the same respect
their
> > are
> > fewer record, CD, and book stores. Do you really think our
consumption of
> > music and books has declined?
> >
> > Bricks and mortar stores are expensive in that they require you to
> maintain
> > stocks. With on demand production (be that miniatures or game
printing)
> and
> > PDFs being favoured in many cases (searchable!) for games, the
reasons
> for
> > an LGS to exist are questionable. Even the boardgame sales have gone
> online
> > significantly.
> >
> > So, yes, this part of the business has changed. I think you hastily
> > conclude
> > this implies something larger about the hobby which I am not sure is
> > supported.
> >
> > Counterpoints:
> > - more miniature manufacturers and variety than I've ever seen
before by
> a
> > far cry (but selling over the Internet)
> > - major games conventions still seem to operate (if they are well
> > managed.... half the problem in this area is mismanagement)
> > - more rulesets available on the net for free or POD tor as PDF than
I've
> > ever seen in times past
> > - Plenty of blogs on miniatures gaming out there showing people
playing
> the
> > games and a wider variety of games than in times past
> > - more boardgame wargames available now than I've ever seen before
(but
> > these are not your AH or SPI games... these have slick looking
rules,
> > boards, and modern boardgame design)
> >
>
> Another data point: look at how much time Jon has to work on any rules
> sets,
> given that he's no longer producing miniatures as much anymore. ;-)
>
> I think there is a lot of gaming going on out there with miniatures. I
> can't
> > tell how much. I don't think the industry is in any danger of
> disappearing
> > given the number of people publishing rules and selling miniatures
and
> the
> > number of articles on this stuff on the web. The people are ordering
> > directly from suppliers and bricks and mortar stores and local
gaming
> > activity associated with them are in decline, but the games have
also
> gone
> > a
> > bit more mainstream in exposure and participation.
> >
>
> Yeah. Gaming doesn't have the stigma it used to have 20-30 years ago,
to be
> sure.
>
> I understand, Jer, that if you are basing your premises on what's
going on
> immediately around you you would think the industry is evaporating,
but I
> would suggest that you're working with a limited data set. Down here
in
> Maryland, minis gaming is going on pretty strong. I know it's going
well in
> New York, Virginia, and Ohio. And echoing Tom's notes about the
internet,
> yeah, there have been a number of minis-related blogs that have been
> springing up, easier online access to stores, email listservs being
more
> active (not so much our GZG list here, but some of the 15mm lists I'm
on
> are
> moreso now than before; can't speak for any 25mm lists :) ). I believe
> Eureka minis in Australia is doing well; their 300 club has been
getting
> some production from the feedback I've seen in some of the circles I
put my
> toes in. And there are more companies now to choose from than 10 years
ago.
>
> All in all I think it's good.  :-)
>
> Mk
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:08:36 +0100
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-Id: <a05210657cac710aad810@[192.168.1.100]>
>
> >TomB said:
>
>
>
> >
> >Jerry,
> >
> >Not sure if you are right or just working with bad data... :0)
> >
> >There are fewer LGS than their used to be, but in the same respect
their
> are
> >fewer record, CD, and book stores. Do you really think our
consumption of
> >music and books has declined?
> >
> >Bricks and mortar stores are expensive in that they require you to
> maintain
> >stocks. With on demand production (be that miniatures or game
printing)
> and
> >PDFs being favoured in many cases (searchable!) for games, the
reasons for
> >an LGS to exist are questionable. Even the boardgame sales have gone
> online
> >significantly.
> >
> >So, yes, this part of the business has changed. I think you hastily
> conclude
> >this implies something larger about the hobby which I am not sure is
> >supported.
> >
> >[....snip lots of stuff....]
>
>
>
> >I think there is a lot of gaming going on out there with miniatures.
I
> can't
> >tell how much. I don't think the industry is in any danger of
disappearing
> >given the number of people publishing rules and selling miniatures
and the
> >number of articles on this stuff on the web. The people are ordering
> >directly from suppliers and bricks and mortar stores and local gaming
> >activity associated with them are in decline, but the games have also
gone
> a
> >bit more mainstream in exposure and participation.
> >
> >Every gamer I know with kids is introducing his or her kids to it, so
that
> >gives me a lot of optimism.
> >
> >Tom
> >
>
>
> All I can add to this is the simple fact that in over 20 years of
> manufacturing and trading, I've never been busier than in the last
> couple of years, and I'm glad to say that it shows no signs of
> slowing down at the moment!  :-)
>
> Jon (GZG)
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 15:06:25 +0200
> From: "bobdea" <bobdea@terra.es>
> To: <gzg@firedrake.org>
> Subject: Gaming is declining.. I think not
> Message-ID: <0C7E42E4D38A4893B364E886B9A880F9@bobsnewbaby>
>
> Long time lurker here
>
>			    Quoting the decline in number of bricks and
> mortar outlets as proof of the forthcoming death of miniature gaming
is no
> longer valid.. The world has changed and the sales systems in the
hobby
> too.. I have been gaming for about 50 years and in my youth had been
known
> to travel hundreds of miles to shops to buy and get a look at the
latest
> models. This was also true of Wargames exhibiton. Yes i enjoyed the
> exhibition games but my real target was the trade stands to see what
was
> new
> etc and to top up the metal pile..  That is no longer necessary. All I
need
> is that magic On switch and  a modem to satisfy that need. I view and
buy
> all my gaming needs from the comfort of my own home and purchase
> WWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY too much stuff with the flexible friend and
the oh
> so easy to use PAYPAL account..
>		   I personally have never spent more on gaming than I
do now
> and am gobsmacked by the range and quality of material that is
available..
> From where I sit in war gaming isolation in northern spain the hobby
has
> NEVER appeared healthier than it is in the present day.. A dying hobby
is
> incabable of supporting so many new and incredibly expanding
manufacturers
> as we see today.. In the "good old days" It was hard for a
manufacturer to
> get his goods to market .. Now all he needs is a web page and a decent
> marketing strategy and a good product of course. The overabundance of
web
> cams, cell phone cameras and incredibly cheap digital cameras mean
that
> displaying your goods on the web is so easy that your customers can
view
> them from there own homes.. How much better can it get.
>		   Then we get to plastic figures. In the "old days" you
> would need to be insane to consider putting a plastic moulded figure
on the
> market because the costs were way to high to justify the sales the
market
> could generate. Even considering the way that production costs have
come
> down in recent years a dying market could never support the plethora
of
> plastic molded items filling out web shops at the moment.
>
>		 Sooooooooo lets stop bemoaning the death of our hobby
and
> celebrate being participants in a life long joy that has discovered
the
> internet and reinvented itself into a whole new world of electronic
sales
> and the type of service so many manufacturers now provide to make our
hobby
> both vibrant, alive and incredibly satisfying..
>
> Bob D..
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Aaron Teske <mithramuse@yahoo.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-ID:
<1319209114.75105.YahooMailClassic@web38801.mail.mud.yahoo.com
> >
>
> Just to chip in a little on an area that I'm seeing rather a lot of
these
> days, and say "Hi!" to everyone on the list:
>
> --- On Thu, 10/20/11, Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 3. Fix the demographics a bit - pure math says the NAC
> > should beat the heck out of the ESU and take its lunch
> > money (based on modern day population and GDP).
>
> Project GDP forward enough, though, and you do have China overtaking
the US
> -- particularly if the US gets "stuck" at its current output for a
long
> time, though that would also have follow-on effects slowing down
China.
>
> It does make the Russia-centric ESU a bit odd; as others postulated
here,
> perhaps that is explained by Russia linking more tightly with China to
> supply energy and other raw materials (nickel, etc.) and gaining a
larger
> voice because of it (though I think historically speaking, countries
that
> are "just" raw material suppliers end up on the down side of any such
> relationship).
>
> Technology wise, that advantage may follow over to China as well, but
there
> are a lot more "twitchy" effects with things like that.  For all the
numbers
> that people love to throw around about how well high school students
do in
> China (or Asia) vs. the US, and how many college degrees China is
granting
> in Engineering, the fact is that when you get into the details that's
> comparing apples and lychee, which I can get into if people want but
> otherwise no worries.  Suffice it to say, creativity-wise the US is
still
> far, far ahead, though if we standardize our school testing down the
line we
> might just shoot ourselves in the foot by enough to lose that lead,
too.
>
> Fwee... back to work for me. ^_-
>
> --Aaron
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:12:15 -0400
> From: Indy <indy.kochte@gmail.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-ID: <
> CABU2aEA_-adoXEwgxjX8X6QAAcTQ06HRjhDzRLJfDOh0tJmo-w@mail.gmail.com>
>
> textfilter: chose text/plain from a multipart/alternative
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Aaron Teske <mithramuse@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> "Aaron Teske"..."Aaron Teske"...I've heard that name before...from
> somewhere...
>
> Mk
>
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:34:49 +0100
> From: Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
> To: gzg@firedrake.org
> Subject: Re: Discussion topic - rewriting (future) history....?
> Message-Id: <a05210658cac7408d115a@[192.168.1.100]>
>
> >Just to chip in a little on an area that I'm seeing rather a lot of
> >these days, and say "Hi!" to everyone on the list:
> >
> >--- On Thu, 10/20/11, Tom B <kaladorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>  3. Fix the demographics a bit - pure math says the NAC
> >>  should beat the heck out of the ESU and take its lunch
> >>  money (based on modern day population and GDP).
> >
> >Project GDP forward enough, though, and you do have China overtaking
> >the US -- particularly if the US gets "stuck" at its current output
> >for a long time, though that would also have follow-on effects
> >slowing down China.
> >
> >It does make the Russia-centric ESU a bit odd; as others postulated
> >here, perhaps that is explained by Russia linking more tightly with
> >China to supply energy and other raw materials (nickel, etc.) and
> >gaining a larger voice because of it (though I think historically
> >speaking, countries that are "just" raw material suppliers end up on
> >the down side of any such relationship).
> >
> >Technology wise, that advantage may follow over to China as well,
> >but there are a lot more "twitchy" effects with things like that.
> >For all the numbers that people love to throw around about how well
> >high school students do in China (or Asia) vs. the US, and how many
> >college degrees China is granting in Engineering, the fact is that
> >when you get into the details that's comparing apples and lychee,
> >which I can get into if people want but otherwise no worries.
> >Suffice it to say, creativity-wise the US is still far, far ahead,
> >though if we standardize our school testing down the line we might
> >just shoot ourselves in the foot by enough to lose that lead, too.
> >
> >Fwee... back to work for me. ^_-
> >
> >--Aaron
>
>
> Re the Russo-centric ESU, I think that may be a bit of a misreading
> of the canon - remember that the ESU was originally formed after
> China invaded large parts of Central Asia, and for a good while after
> that the ESU was very Chinese-dominated. It is only in the latter
> part of the canon timeline that the Russian elements of the ESU have
> seen some real resurgence, and by the GZG "present day" I see it as
> very much a balance between the Russian and Chinese influences -
> hence the eclectic mix of ship class names!  ;-)
>
> Jon (GZG)
>
>