Re: [GZG] Screens versus Advanced Screens in Cross Dimensions?

>Nitpicky thing:  I was figuring that the screen would only reduce 
>the _initial_ damage, not the extra you get if it "doubles".  I 
>don't know if we were on the same page there.	So a K-6 would do 4 
>points of damage against an advanced screen, have a 50% chance of 
>getting the extra (instead of 83.333%), and get the full extra 6 
>points if it doubled, not just 4.  This would reduce the average net 
>damage of a K-6 from 11 points per hit to 7, which is what I was 
>basing my idea of it being about right upon.  The K-1 and K-2 would 
>still be harmless unless...

Did some number crunching on the two proposals.

First, here's the average damage per die and relative effectiveness
of torpedoes/missiles against advanced screens:
  None	 Adv1	 Adv2
  3.50	 2.50	 1.50
  100%	 71%	 43%

So while advanced screens are expensive, they really do have quite
an effect on the damage you take, more than the effect of normal
screens against beams.

Here's the average damage for K-guns vs advanced screens using my
proposal of subtracting screen level from K-gun grade. Ignore the
K1 and K2 for the moment since they're tricky.

Grade	Standard	Adv1		Adv2
K 1	 1.17		 0.00	 00%	 0.00	 00%
K 2	 2.67		 1.17	 44%	 0.00	 00%
K 3	 4.50		 2.67	 59%	 1.17	 26%
K 4	 6.67		 4.50	 68%	 2.67	 40%
K 5	 9.17		 6.67	 73%	 4.50	 49%
K 6	11.00		 9.17	 83%	 6.67	 61%

The average effectiveness is 54% and 29% respectively, but these
are slanted by K1/K2 doing zero. Advanced screens are more effective
against K3 and K4, less so against K5 and K6.

Using your proposal of deducting screen level from the initial
grade and chance of doubling, but not the extra double damage if
the roll succeeds:

Grade	Standard	Adv1		Adv2
K 1	 1.17		 0.00	 00%	 0.00	 00%
K 2	 2.67		 1.33	 50%	 0.00	 00%
K 3	 4.50		 3.00	 67%	 1.50	 33%
K 4	 6.67		 5.00	 75%	 3.33	 50%
K 5	 9.17		 7.33	 80%	 5.50	 60%
K 6	11.00		10.00	 91%	 8.00	 73%

Average 60% and 36%, again slanted by the special case of K1
and K2. Against the big K guns, this isn't achieving much.

(It is of course possible that I screwed up the math somewhere.)

I prefer my proposal because 1. it's simpler 2. it's more effective
against the bigger K guns and 3. it's simpler. (I really, really
like keeping things simple.)

>  >I would add a special rule: if the grade drops below 1, ie K-1
>>against any advanced screen or K-2 against level-2, it still
>>inflicts one point of damage if they roll a natural 6 to hit.
>
>Hm.  So a K-1 would basically not be changed at the 24-30 MU range 
>band at all because this doesn't change from what it normally does, 
>and a Kra'Vak destroyer that's armed with nothing bigger than a K-2 
>would then have every reason to just stay at maximum firing range if 
>it could because approaching any closer wouldn't do it any good? 
>That's kind of a weird set of side effects...

Well, I'm not too concerned about it being strange. I dislike the
idea of ships becoming totally invulnerable to a ship to ship
weapon, and FT does have a general rule that a natural 6 always
does some damage, even if you're a useless torpedo fighter in a
dogfight. All I want to do is make the escort vs advanced screen
combat almost impossible instead of utterly hopeless. And here I
think it's even more important to keep things simple, there's no
point in investing complexity on what is very much an edge case.

>Here's my counter-idea:  if the grade drops below 1, the K-gun rolls 
>its usual to-hit roll, and if it "hits" it rolls an additional roll 
>similar to how another K-gun would roll for a double, except that in 
>this case it's trying to roll to do its _base_ damage.  They would 
>have to roll their original grade or lower, with a +1 bonus if it's 
>a level 1 screen.  So against a level 1 screen a K-1 would do its 
>one point of damage on a 1 or 2, and against a level 2 it's just on 
>1.  A K-2 would get it on 1-3 against a level 1 and 1-2 against a 
>level 2.  Still makes life pretty pitiful for the puny escorts, but 
>it takes away the weird side effects where ranges become irrelevant 
>once you're within 30 MU, and makes a difference between whether 
>it's a level 1 or level 2 advanced screen against a K-1 as well.

But I'll run the numbers on this as well, and may change my mind
again. Thanks for going into such detail.

	cheers,
	Hugh
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