Re: [GZG] Mixed Role Fighters

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compliments to Mr. Mayberry for his decent summary.

Note however that every assessment of fighter worth takes into account
some
factors and omits others.

Classic FB fighters (no idea what tweaks have recently transpired) show
a
distinctly non-linear behaviour in terms of their value. If you have a
few
fighter groups to spare more than the enemy, his PDS still stands a
decent
chance of ripping you up. If you have 5 or 6 groups more, he's in some
trouble, etc. The value of 1 fighter group attacking a ship with 3-4 PDS
is
very low, the value of a greater number quickly is very much higher. The
problem here is *the value depends on what the enemy brings*.

Then we've got interceptors. Worth nothing against ships. If the enemy
jumps
in with a battle line and no carrier.... ha ha ha on you for bringing
any
interceptors. Value = 0. Well, better than that because you actually
paid
hull mass, etc. for them.

Estimating the value of a fighter plus support systems is still perilous
because in theory, that value would be affected by every system on the
ship.
A thrust 10 fighter carrier is far more zippy than anyone else's. So
that
adds value to the fighter stored within in some senses. A carrier
ridiculously heavily defended with major beams and such precludes any
other
ship from supporting fighters by coordinating attacks. This makes those
fighter's value a bit different. Etc. *again depends what you bring vs.
what
he brought*.

Further, in trying to assess the value of a standard or attack fighter,
you
have to weight its performance in dogfights *plus* its anti-ship
performance. Figuring out how to weight these two aspects is pretty
interesting as a lot depends on who brought what *again*.

Oh, and then we throw in multi-role fighters. Take some of the above and
amplify. Not all combinations are equally useful. Heavy Interceptors
are.
Fast Heavy Torpedo fighters might be. Fast Interceptors are of debatable
value given Interceptors will often be screening, so maybe that combo
isn't
worth as much.

When I said earlier I had no faith in point systems, this is part of
why.
Everything is contextual. Heck, even whether you play with pre-game
strategic intelligence or not would affect point values. If you have
some
ideas what sorts of designs an enemy has rolled off his production lines
and
in what proportions, that gives you more of a clue than 'he can show up
with
anything he designed'.

So you're all busy trying to unfurl the Gordian Knot. The problem here
is it
really is the Gordian Knots - 1 per situation. Any generic point value
will
be inherently flawed in almost any situation except the specific one
from
which it was conjured. This pretty much means that arguing about if a
fighter is worth X or Y more than the book says is a hilarious
discussion,
because so much of that evaluation depends on situations used in the
assessment.

Not saying you can't come up with something that 'sort of works' some of
the
time. That's what point systems end up being. But just trying to restore
perspective in saying you'll always be able to create scenarios which
will
break any point system you create, usually quite simply.

Here again we see why I love SG2. You have to balance by scenario with
an
experienced eye based on some reasonable examples of scenarios from the
past. It's sort of like a classic craftsman more than an accountant. And
you'll get it right about 2 times in 3 once you get good at it (esp if
you
can playtest beforehand). But even then, you'll miss some options of
strategy that will invalidate your balance. But you don't linger under
the
'illusion' of a point system. Thank you very much, Jon Tuffley!

However, keep hewing away with your swords at the Knot. Just make sure
they
aren't Damoclean.

-- 
http://ante-aurorum-tenebrae.blogspot.com/
http://www.stargrunt.ca

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy
from
oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that
will reach to himself." -- Thomas Paine

"When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty
quits the horizon." -- Thomas Paine