Re: [GZG] [ECC XII][For Damo] Thoughts on stress for FMAS - some feedback

I enjoyed the game very much even with the MG gunner playing patty cake
with all the stress markers that he got. <G>.

With some of the small changes that are being hashed out this system
would be great for small actions.  I wonder if there is any plans to
pubish such a system in the future?  Or better yet, where is the current
version of the rules and who is working on it?	How can we help finish
them and get them out the door?

Magic

----- Original Message ----
From: Damo <damosan@gmail.com>
To: gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:17:54 AM
Subject: Re: [GZG] [ECC XII][For Damo] Thoughts on stress for FMAS -
some feedback

On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:55 PM, Tom B wrote:

>
> The enemy focused fire on other units (because it could) and that  
> MG just did nothing - didn't get better, didn't get worse, could  
> not act.
>

I understand the frustration with this.  :)  Having appropriate  
leadership nearby would have increased the number of chances per turn  
by at least one on average.  Unfortunately your leaders got stuck in  
the line due to other circumstances.

> Any turn you are in sight of the enemy but don't take a stress  
> chit: Remove 1 stress chit at the end of the turn.
> Any turn you are not in sight of the enemy and don't take a stress  
> chit: Remove 2 stress chits at the end of the turn.

I like the first but the second would require a bit more effort --  
"not in sight" for the entire turn?  By end of turn?  If the former  
that'd require remembering every enemy movement path during the  
turn.  This may not be a problem as figure density is pretty low for  
your average force on force game.

I wonder if you could have spent and activation to drag the gunner  
back into the woods?  Have the leader slap him up a bit and then send  
him back into the line.  FMAS, to me at least, is part RPG so I would  
have allowed that.

>
> On the Grenade Front:
>

I'll preface my comments with the fact that if you have any nerve on  
the character you have to take an activation check first just to be  
able to activate.  A second comment would be that regular FMAS	
throwing a grenade is a two action activity -- one to prepare and two  
to throw and have it blow up.  Having the grenade explode on your  
next action was mine.  A So with that said...

> Test to throw a grenade back:
>
> Roll to beat MOTIVATION + STRESS (if you're pinned in place with  
> your hands over your ears, you aren't getting up to throw that  
> grenade) + 1 per 1" away the grenade lands. So, a cool hand  
> MOTIVATION 1 with no stress has a grenade land at his feet = easy  
> to throw back. A more normal MOTIVATION 2 with two stress chits due  
> to fire who has a grenade land 2" away would have to beat a 6, more  
> of a challenge. I'd also roll a D4 or D6 'cover die' for the	
> grenade (D4 in relatively un-dense cover like light woods and a D6  
> in dense cover like thick woods or rubble) and if the throw back  
> roll does not exceed this cover die, the grenade isn't found and  
> goes off. So you could still throw them back, you'd just have to  
> roll more than 3 or 4 most of the time on your dice. Your vets and  
> elites would probably still not have much problem, regs would be  
> okay in calm circumstances where they could see the grenade, but  
> your greens would probably be hard pressed as would regs in  
> cluttered surroundings.
>

I like the above but in your second example a Regular/2 with two  
nerve tokens will have to roll 5+ on a d8 in order to activate first  
(50%).	Then move 2" to contact the 'nade.  Another 5+ reaction check  
would be made (50%) to pick it up and throw it back.  Failure on this  
roll would mean the trooper couldn't find the grenade or the enemy  
cooked it off before he threw it.

On the table I think that'd work out to RUN AWAY!  Which is alright  
as well.  :)

The odds start to work out better at the Vet / Elite end of the  
range.	That's peachy as I'd expect more battlefield presence out of  
these guys.

I don't want to lose sight of the fact that tactically you'd engage  
with small arms at a certain range and once the target has been  
prepped go in for the final 15-20m close assault to get things done.  
Charging a prepared three man position with a luger in one hand and a  
potato masher in the other is a recipe for failure.  I could imagine  
the Paratroopers saying "WTF is that crazy SOB doing?"

> Alternative 'Reaction' Action:
>
> Either of these eat up your next activation even if they fail to  
> produce a successful result as the character tried to dive for  
> cover or throw the grenade back.
>

Leaving you dead meat -- but the grenade has done it's job even if it  
didn't cause any wounds.  Against a single target that's probably not  
a big deal but in 2+ man fighting positions it can be an issue.  At  
that point, in order to protect the other troopers in the position  
it's time to consider a Medal of Honor style activity.

> I also think you should have 'reaction fire' for unactivated units  
> into whose frontage appears an active enemy.

Already in the rules.  You can go on overwatch and I believe that if  
you want reactive fire you burn both activations to take a shot.  I  
wouldn't expect everyone at the table to know that offhand and	
probably should have explained that beforehand.

>
> I think with these fixes, you remove
> - the issue with stress that never reduces even after people stop  
> shooting at you

Check on this one.  Next year drag the gunner into better cover and  
slap him up more.  ;)

> - the issue with ease of grenade returns (a real dis-incentive to  
> throw them back) (they stay simple for good troops in low stress  
> and uncluttered surroundings, but not for stressed troops, poor  
> troops, or in cluttered surroundings)

Using normal activation checks and then applying another check	
modified by movement distances should be enough to help here.  At  
least for your standard Regular/2 types.

> - the problem of being the first one to take up a firing position  
> in a woodsline (enemies all sprout out of the far woodsline and  
> shoot at you without having to spot and you can't fire at them even  
> if you have not activated yet for the round) (in other words,  
> reduces blink monster scenarios)

I should have explained the opp fire bit beforehand.  One weakness if  
MINE is that I assume most ECC attendies have played FMAS of one  
version or another.

> - gives people a 'dive for cover' and a 'move out of blast radius'  
> option for grenades

Using the procedure we used Sunday you have an action to respond.  So  
you could move one guy out.  If you have a leader nearby it becomes  
possible to move two guys out of the position.	This does become an  
issue once the nade is thrown back.  Of course if we use some of the  
tweaks above the odds of that happening slim down dramatically.

> Otherwise, I think the scenario played out very well. Next time, be  
> sure to say twice that your character sheet has to say "Grenade" on  
> it for your character to have them. I missed that.

That one is all me.  I'll lay it at the feet of "it was Sunday	
morning after a long weekend of gaming."  :)

Damo

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu
http://vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu:1337/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gzg-l

_______________________________________________
Gzg-l mailing list
Gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu
http://vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu:1337/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gzg-l