Re: [GZG] Tech Levels

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Richard Bell <rlbell.nsuid@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Utterly ineffective against small arms of the kind issued to ground
troops.
>
> It was not meant to be effective against small arms.	It was meant to
> protect against shell fragments and grenades-- the stuff that kills in
> job lots.

Fascinating.  However, since the topic under discussion is small arms,
irrelevant.

>> Which is actually a huge step backwards compared to the heights
>> reached in helmet design during the 1400s.  Have a buddy with a
>> bascinet which is incredibly glancy.  He's got to screw up his
>> defenses something bad for me to put a solid blow on his head.
>
> Next time, use a gun.  The problem with all of those classic armors

Too easy.  And not Society-legal.  No matter how much duct tape I put on
it.

> (aside form hideous expense) was the problem of not stopping bullets
> reliably and seldom stopping crossbow bolts, at all.	Even pike
> squares gave them pause.  The humble modern helmet does do its
> assigned task of allowing a soldier to peek over the top of a trench,
> without guaranteeing that the enemy marksman takes off the top of his
> head

1) Crap, as your "classic" helmet will indeed stop a crossbow bolt
that hits other than squarely.	That's why helmet survived for such a
long time after other armor went the way of the dodo.

2) It would amuse me highly for you to get shot in the head wearing
any of the "tin hats" of 1916-1975.  They didn't really protect
against small arms fire either until the adoption of ceramic
composites in the 1980s.

> The problem with modern body armor on the battlefield is that the
> weapons already have far too much penetration, as a side effect of
> being able to hit a mansized target at just under a kilometer.  The
> danger of modern armor is that it will prevent a round that would
> normally pass straight through from exitting-- generating a much more
> severe wound, as it stops.

A lot depends on the modern armor in question--I know more than a few
people who stopped an AK round in the SAPI plate and had nothing but
bruises to show for the experience.  On the other hand, if you can hit
a mansized target at just under a kilometer with an AK other than by
sheer accident, you are a god among marksmen.  So perhaps you're
talking about Mausers or something. . .

John,
who is now confused utterly as to the point you're trying to make, but
enjoys rebutting it anyway
-- 
"Thousands of Sarmatians, Thousands of Franks, we've slain them again
and again.  We're looking for thousands of Persians."
--Vita Aureliani

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