Re: [GZG] Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi!

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e no idea what edition your on now but the only edition I ever got 
was the first edition hardback - 10 years sounds about right.  The book 
I bought after that was the compedium(???) which had a lot of black and 
white pictures and a series of connected scenarios.  A good part of the 
rules were introduce in their magazine (when it still advertised other 
people).

I seem to remember (I could be wrong - it is a long time ago) that WH40K

was originally called "Rogue Trader" and was supposed to be an RPG, not 
a "wargame".

You mentioned one of the main reasons I dislike the rules - you can take

out tanks with grenades.  Real soldiers don't take out tanks with 
grenades unless they want a medal - posthumously.

Two other things I dislike - space marine landraiders (???) and weapons 
ranges.

Land raiders - who designed this thing, a crack addict chimp whos sole 
source of military knowledge was WW1??? 
	Main guns do NOT go on the side with a limited AOF, they go in 
turrets ON TOP (or bottom if it's a flying tank)
       Armour is not supposed to be FLAT, its supposed to be SLOPED
       Theres no way its large enough to carry what it say it carries - 
marines are big people, in their armour they're huge so stick 10 plus 
crew in a vehicle and youd need something the size of a USMC Amtrac (I 
think thats what it called - huge amphibious brick to beach land troops)

which I beleive is larger than a Abrams without the weapons.

Weapons ranges - pistols have half the range of rifles which have 
slightly shorter range than heavy weapons. 
	Artillery is really bad since it has a maximum range that 
doesn't extend along the battle field.	The lightest artillery in a real

army is probably a man portable mortar which can fire 10 times farther 
than a rifle.  I really lost  interest in the rules when the difference 
between the weapons became so small.  I bet if you asked a soldier what 
his ideal weapon would be something with the weight and recoil of an M16

but all the other characteristics of a minigun or a 50 calibre.  WH40K 
appears to have got this the wrong way round  with weapons that act like

50 cals in all but actual effectiveness.  This might be related to the 
landraider problem though - fashion over function.

There are other minor annoyances with the rules but these are the three 
that put me off the rules completely.

John Tailby wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Adrian1 al.ll@tiscali.co.uk <mailto:al.ll@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Depends what type of game you want.  If you want to be able to take 
> out an MBT with a sword then WH40K.  If you want a certain degree of 
> realism then something more wargame, less toygame.
>
> Personally, I like the WH40K background and may (just may) buy a 
> source book but I would never buy the rules because I just don't like 
> that style of play - far to many heroes, dice and randomness.
>
>  
>  
> Well you will be pleased to know that you can't do this anymore, and 
> it has been unlikely that power armoured infantry could destroy and 
> armoured vehicle without a specialist assault weapon for at least 10 
> years.
>  
> The new vehicle assault rules make it very difficult for even power 
> armoured infantry to destroy the armoured vehicles without anti armour

> grenades or other specialist assault weapons. It's impossible for 
> infantry not in power armour to do.
>  
> It is possible for infantry to assault a vehicle and stun the cres to 
> prevent it from firing, dameage weapons and mobility units and maybe 
> kill it with enough circumulative damage results.
>  
> All in all sounds quite reasonable to me.
>  
> Sounds like you haven't played the game for a long time, at least 2 
> editions have come and gone since the game was like that.
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