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Re: [GZG] Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi!

From: "Eli Arndt" <emu2020@c...>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 00:21:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [GZG] Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi!

Gzg-l mailing list 

“If I used erroneous data to support my arguments then so did you.
It's rather pointless giving a review of a game that you don't play and
don't like. I don't think your review of 40k was balanced at all.”

I don’t play it. I have played it though. For years. Since 1st
edition. I would likely play it again if not for the heavy-handed
rulings of the company and many of the players that follow them. And I
fail to see how my dislike or like of a game has anything to do with
whether or not I should review a game.

“ You talk about constant change and army invalidation. GW struggles
to maintain a 5 year renewal cycle on its rules and army list books. I
don't think 5 years is an unreasonable time to update rules and army

Update yes, but there is no reason they can’t make sure that all
previously published forces are included in updates.

“In 15 years of playing 40k to my knowledge GW have only dropped
support for one race, because they could figure out a way to make
inspirational figures and rules for it any more. As has been noted they
are a figure making company and need good figure sales to support their
business. Some new versions of the rules and army lists invalidate or
change the most efficient builds of some armies. But this is often a
reflection of the designers trying to correct their mistakes. Surely
they should have an opportunity to do this.”

I have no said anything about races. As an Imperial Guard player I saw
my army lose dreadnoughts, war robots, jump troopers, beast men and
various equipment options. Mind you these are entire units that I have
gone out, purchased, collected, painted and added to my armies only to
have a future version of the game write them right out of the rules. On
a similar, but not quite as annoying note, I also had forces
organizations change substantially enough that my units suddenly became
too big or too small. The general trend of the rules also tended to make
my troops cheaper and cheaper, point-wise, forcing me to have to
purchase more figures to once again have a competitive army.

“From what my friends have said (who play the game more than me and so
are qualified to comment), Privateer Press have painted themselves into
a corner with some of their initial version of war casters. Initial
versions of war caster Sorcha were found to be unbelievably good how
then to the game designers fix this.”

Privateer Press didn’t fix her. She’s not unbeatable. She’s not
the only powerful caster in the game and I see her go down routinely.
Also, PP has a very plain and unapologetic stance that they are making a
game where everything is basically over the top and broken. Is this for
everyone? Not likely. And I would give caution to people wanting to play
PPs game that any preconceptions of what you normally think of balance
are likely to go out the window. Everything in PP strives to be
outrageous. It’s on the first few pages of the book.

 “In regard companies running events. I don't think it unreasonable
that a company running an event insists that its product be used. I
don't think that Oracle would like software products based on .net being
demonstrated at one of their trade shows. If a company wants to organise
an event and then allow other manufacturers products to be used then
good on them. In New Zealand, Flames of War don't allow other companies
models at their tournaments and certainly don't encourage or support you
using other companies models events in other countries and those run by
independent stockists might well have other rules.”

>From Battlefront’s Tournament Frequently Asked Questions - 

“Do all the players need to have Battlefront Miniatures?

Obviously, the easy answer from a sales prospective is yes, of course
but honestly the

real answer is no. It would be very difficult to monitor this rule and
we hope that at

the end of the day if the players out there are enjoying Flames of War
they will help

support our hobby by using Battlefront Miniatures.”

There is a huge difference between “we’d prefer you not” and

“I found some of comments very funny. The same people who said they
were very interested in games based on Aliens, with shooting marines vs.
close combat aliens, said they didn't like how 40k had units that did
nothing but run into combat. Sorry but what else does an Alien do? You
could use 40K to produce a very massive aliens type game, I don't think
40k would be detailed enough for a replay of the Aliens movie, but if
you wanted 100 Colonial marines vs. 100 Aliens and to finish the game in
2-3 hours then you could use 40k..”

I also find this comment made by others a bit silly. 40K has a heavy
theme and in the setting that is how they fight. The Imperial Guard is a
more conventional army as are the Tau. Most of the armies are equipped
to close the gap for one thematic reason or another.

You may also recall that I very much stated my post was opinion. I also
followed up by telling him to make his own choice and really play what
he wanted to play. I played 40K happily and excitedly for years. As I
grew up and began to understand the value of my dollar and see how
GW’s practices differed from other games out there, I moved away from
their games. This was a value judgment based on what is important to me
in a game. I’m not going to tell anyone what to play, but I will
provide my opinion and views of a game when asked.

I’m not saying anything more after this, because this has gone way far
afield from the original post. I stated my peace and evidently you took
exception and felt that a man’s opinion wasn’t something to take
exception to. There was no need to move into an argument. There was no
need to try and elevate your point by throwing out unfounded comments. I
would hope that the initial poster at least garnered enough information
from this thread to make an informed decision.

Once again, I would like to say to the poster, what I said originally.
There are some things to be aware of before entering into 40K. There are
some great things about getting involved in GW games. If you can handle
the cost and their track record of gross re-writes and some dogmatic
thinking, you will find a game that is widely played, well-supported and
readily available.

Thank you all for putting up with this thread,


P.S. Can we get back to GZG now?

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