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Re: [VV] Vectorverse FTL

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [VV] Vectorverse FTL

At 2:30 PM -0500 1/31/05, Grant A. Ladue wrote:
>    All very true, but none of it changes the basic equation.	No fixed
set of
>  defenses is going to be sufficient against an opponent that can just
>  to attack with impunity.  At some point, if you can't prevent him
>  continuing to launch wave after wave of missiles (rocks, nukes,
whatever) at
>  you then you're going to be overwhelmed.

Theoretically in a total defense of Gibraltar type scenario, you 
could start lobbing nukes first to clear the waters so to speak. Your 
subs could provide generous targeting data (sufficient for arc minute 
of Nuke accuracy)

>Fixed defenses around a wormhole are
>  going to be like modern minefields.	They're intended to slow and
damage an
>  opponent, not stop him.  The real battle is when you engage the
mobile forces
>  behind the fixed defenses.
>    If there is a way to build "perfect" fixed defenses, then you've
just gone
>  back to the lockable/closeable gate idea.

As with any defense attack scenario, its about the multipliers you 
have on either side. The defense behind fortifications gets more 
multipliers which means the attacker has to bring more to the game. 
John Atkinson can surely chime in here about the "utter futility of 
fortifications" (narf) in the day and age of mobility.

Ultimately you have to bring more force to bear than the guy 
defending. If he plans his defenses well, you're going to have to 
bring even more than if he plans poorly. If he's prepared to combine 
a fixed force with a mobile force that hits you when you attack then 
you're going to really have your work cut out for you. If the US and 
Britain decided to fortify Gibraltar to say, contain Mediterrainian 
forces that were opposed to the US, then I'd hate to be that force 
that tries to force a crossing (be it France or someone else). Doing 
so would be severely costly and require a lot of assets.

>  If there is another way to do ftl,
>  then the other guy is just going to skip entirely around your very
>  defensive position.	If there isn't another way to do ftl, then both
>  build the impregnable defenses, and the gate is effectively closed. 
>  Personally I doubt if you'd be able to build any kind of defense that
>  actually withstand the "many nukes pushed through the gate" kind of

Which is where we get back to the true nature of the choke point. In 
the case of Gibraltar, the only other way into the Med is via Suez 
(an even narrower choke point!).

If the jump point is into your home system (like in many of the 
Weber/Ringo/Flint novels) then you're going to fortify that door like 
it's fort Knox. Sure, you keep up a defense in depth elsewhere, but 
if that door is an open hole into your living-room, you better 
protect it.

>     Sure, but you never send ships through until the unmanned weapons
>   reduced the other side.  Most "gate" systems presented in sf don't
let you
>   see what's coming until it's shown up.  This gives the attacker 
>total control
>   over when and how an attack is launched.

Assuming you control or at least have access to it, you're going to 
have a continual watch on the other side. Pickets. If you don't then 
you have a team of people managing the forces on the near side and 
controlling who comes in. With a nice set of big tough orbitals with 
hardened launch points, sensors and what have you, you can have 
bigger weapons and more magazines (as well as eyes) on the near side 
point than anything coming through. Which buys you time and allows 
you to pound the living crap out of what comes through and starts 
doing what it's not to or is not what it's supposed to be.

>  A defender that can't see or
>   anticipate what's coming until it's almost on top of them is in big

Killing field. Surround the jump point with mines and orbital launch 
points/beam batteries. Provide one route out with mines on the 
non-allowed access-routes. If a red force Battleship comes through 
un-announced, then you're going to paste the living crap out of it 
until he says uncle and powers down or he's a mass of vapor and 
debris. You'll of course have more orbitals with more range than the 
BB and you'll have more angles on the ships exiting. If they bull 
through, then you'll just have to play the numbers game.

Of course, if the Red force can launch 50 missiles through, Blue 
force can start pumping one missile at a time through with Nukes to 
counter that. As long as there is a nuke bloom every certain unit of 
time in the entry point, nothing is in or out.

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