Re: Graser beam observations

Glen Bailey wrote:

>Finally got to test out the graser beams.  The general consensus is
that
>they are too strong.  But, this is in regard to us using lots of
class-1
>Grasers with 6 arcs.  IMO, the mass is too small, its the same as a
>SMR (mass 4) and someone made the claim that it was like having an
>unlimited supply of missiles.	The mass of a 6-arc class-1 Graser
>should probably be 5.

At Mass 4, the G1-6 falls between the same points worth of B1-6 and B2-6

batteries (so roughly 5xB1-6 or 1.7xB2-6 vs 1xG1-6) both in range and 
average damage - the G1 has 6mu longer range than the B1 but
considerably 
lower average damage inside the B1's 12mu range, and 6mu shorter range
than 
the B2 but inflicts more damage per cost once in range (significantly
more 
at range 12-18 mu, but the B2 nearly catches up inside range 12).

At Mass 5 the G1-6 only beats its own cost of B2-6 batteries at range
12-18 
mu; at range 0-12 and 18-24 the B2-6 is more powerful. Doesn't really
leave 
much reason for using the G1, unless of course you're Steve and roll an 
unusual amount of '6's :-/

>I also tried out a 1-arc class-1 Graser strike boat, mass at 7, costing
30
>(main drive was advanced).  I got 33 for 1000 points, lost 7 and
>destroyed a dreadnought-sized ship.  Steve had made a similar one
>costing 49 that had a 6-arc class-1 Graser (and an armor).

In your follow-up post you describe this target dreadnought as being 
somewhere in the TMF 134-154 range, ie. towards the lower end of the
Fleet 
Book "dreadnought" size bracket. Ships of that size are usually worth 
around 450-550 pts (NPV; around 500 - 620 in the CPV system); you
attacked 
it with 990 (825) pts worth of ships. (The strikeboats you lost before
they 
could fire still count in the points total, since the ability to absorb 
damage is one of the things you paid those points for.)

If you had attacked this dreadnought with a single weak-hulled (and thus

weapon-heavy) 990-pt superdreadnought instead of with 990 pts worth of 
weak-hulled strikeboats, would you then have found it outrageous to
destroy 
the target in one turn? Or if your strikeboats had been armed with 
single-shot weapons, eg. MKPs or SMPs?

In addition your opponents seem to have mostly ignored your strikeboats
and 
instead concentrated on your allies' heavier units, even though they
knew 
that those strikeboats were within range and arc of a worthwhile target
and 
that killing the strikeboats would kill a lot of firepower with each
damage 
point inflicted. To me this sounds as if your opponents' somewhat
dubious 
targetting priorities contributed a fair bit to the G1s' success here
:-/

>Most ships had level-1 screens; exept for some small ships (massing
24-34) 
>that died instantly a Graser was turned on them.

Sounds as if these ships had rather weak hulls, then? Average-hulled TMF

24-34 ships have a decent chance of surviving a Graser die, or even two.

> >How was the dice rolling?  High, medium or low?
>
>All of the above.  :)	What really skewed things were the rerolls.  We
had 
>a couple strings of 6s on rerolls. For example, a DD, with 4x 5-arc 
>class-1 Grasers, hit with only 2 but one roll was a 6.  The rerolls 
>produced 9 damage dice.

Hm. If those Grasers were 5-arc rather than 6 or 3 you're using house
rules 
rather than the beta-test versions, and 4 such weapons would have a Mass

somewhere in the 12-16 range which is rather more than the Fleet Book
DDs 
carry - so either this destroyer had very little hull integrity/armour,
or 
it was closer to the Fleet Book light/medium cruisers in size.

>My battle winning salvo was with 6x 6-arc class-1 Grasers (replacing
the 6 
>salvo missile racks) that did 30 damage, plus lots of beam damage 
>(10-15?),  and destroyed a 244 mass ship that had suffered one 
>threshold  beforehand.  Is this the effect you want?
>The target had a level-1 screen. FYI: My ship also had 6x class-3 Beams

>(2x 6-arc,
>4x 5-arc), 3x class-2 Beams (6x 6-arc), 4x class-1 Beams, MD2 (total
mass 
>of 244).

Should that be 3 or 6 B2-6 batteries on your ship? Either way 10-15
damage 
from the beam batteries sounds very low if you were inside range 12, but

about average (possibly a little high) at range 12-18; the G1s OTOH
scored 
over twice their expected average damage.

However, if the TMF 244 target only had 40-45 hull boxes left after its
1st 
threshold it too seems to have been fairly weak-hulled, and you hit it
with 
the full force of your own superdreadnought. Under those circumstances I

don't think it is entirely unreasonable that it was destroyed :-/

>The Grasers outperformed every other weapon by a large margin.

Was that because they survived long enough to fire (eg. your G1-1 
strikeboats - or was that in a different battle?) whereas other weapon 
types didn't, or because of the lucky re-rolls?

>I'm thinking that the class-1 Graser masses should be:
>1-arc: 4, 3-arc: 6, 6-arc: 9.	Except for range, it is
>much better than a Pulse Torpedo Launcher.

As long as the target has no screens and you don't get shot up at long 
range before you can start shooting back, sure. Neither of those
conditions 
are entirely negligible, however - quite the contrary, in fact.

>A mass of 4 for a 1-arc G-1 is probably on par with the 4-mass 1-arc 
>PTL.  The PTL has range, but only ever can do 1d6 damage and at long
range 
>has a slim chance to hit.
>The Graser has unlimited damage potential.

The Graser has unlimited damage *potential*, but it only rarely lives up
to 
that potential. The P-torp also has as good or better hit probability 
against all targets inside range 18 mu.

>A class-2 Beam vs. a class-1 Graser?  There is no comparison.
Forgetting 
>about rerolls, an unscreened target will take 2 damage on a roll of 6
from 
>the Beam (or 4 damage on two 6s at close range), but 2d6 damage from
the 
>Graser (averaging 7).

*If* the Graser gets to fire at all, that is. Since the B2 has three
times 
as wide a fire arc in addition to its somewhat longer range, the B2
tends 
to get more chances to fire over the course of the battle than the G1-1
- 
in Cinematic its wider arc is rather more important than its extra
range.

If OTOH you compare a 3- or 6-arc G1 with B2 batteries you should match
a 
single G1 against one and a half or even two B2s, which kinda changes
the odds.

Later,

Oerjan
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
-Hen3ry