The Tonk!

Excellent!

I really like them.  They have balance and most of all they seem to have
a 
"style" all there own.

Are those non-PA trooper figures GW Imperial Guard with there faces
redone?  
I like them as well, nice job.

I will endeavor to eat only "Tonk Friendly Tuna" from now on out of
respect 
for these noble critters.  :-)

Scott Clinton
The Grumbling Grognard

>From: owner-gzg-digest@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (The GZG Digest)
>Reply-To: gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu
>To: gzg-digest@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
>Subject: The GZG Digest V2 #1544
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:00:03 -0800 (PST)
>
>The GZG Digest        Tuesday, March 11 2003	     Volume 02 : Number
1544
>
>
>
>The following subjects are discussed in this issue:
>  -
>Re: [OT] Visit to the States
>Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>RE: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
>Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>Minatures Page polls
>Tonk Webpage
>RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>Re: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
>RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>  -
>See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing to the
>GZG digest list, or subscribing to the GZG main list.
>  -
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:12:38 -0500
>From: Jon Davis <davisje@nycap.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: [OT] Visit to the States
>
>Germy wrote:
> >
> > > Stuart Murray, an avid GZG gamer, lives in the Bronx.  He's not on
the
> > > list currently.
> > > Jon
> >
> > Thanks for the heads up on listers in the NY area.
> > When I make up my mind as to dates and things then I'll mention
> > it again, might be worth looking some people up over there.
> >
> > Jeremey
> > www.germy.co.uk
>
>
>I'm in upstate NY, so I'm not that far away either!  :-)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:18:23 -0500
>From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@magma.ca>
>Subject: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
>.... are a thing of the past, for a reason. Yes,
>obsolescent technology still abounds. Yes, it is
>possible under some circumstances to imagine
>the re-development of certain technologies.
>Yes, this appeals to the nostalgia of some
>among us for the good ol' days.
>
>But there are reasons these things have went
>the way of the dodo. They aren't light. They
>aren't easily portable. And they demand fluid,
>which isn't light or portable. And the truth is,
>the capabilities they offer are generally not
>required.
>
>As has been illustrated by others, the fast,
>sustained fire is not usually a tremendous
>advantage when fighting a modern enemy
>force. They tend not to attack in human waves
>and by clacking away, you'll most likely mark
>yourself out as a target. And your piddly few
>thousand feet of theoretical range won't mean
>much to someone with a missile launcher
>lurking near the horizon. Kaboom, no more Mr.
>Machine Gun.
>
>Mobility is, in large part, key to survival.
>Fortifications are nice, but they have historically
>had drawbacks which still pertain (psychological
>ones to the force occupying them) and they
>have distinct drawbacks versus support such as
>artillery and air, which can crack bunkers like
>walnuts. And bunkers don't dodge too well.
>
>Water cooled systems exist on some larger
>combat systems for sea use probably because
>water is something easily access. Some large
>land combat systems may use them, but
>precious few.
>
>And for the infantry, they are pretty much
>unheard of in modern usage. Why? If I'm going
>to carry 15 lbs. of water, a tripod, and my HMG
>(even with some helpers), that's a lot of weight.
>If I plan to use it for continous fire, that's a
>huge amount of ammo (in fact, one example of
>overuse of ammunition is quite visible in the
>new Bruce Willis film Tears of the Sun - we must
>have missed the off screen supply drop - but
>it's a movie so we suspend disbelief). All of that
>weighs. And as a poor gropos, you're already
>carrying possibly NBC gear, body armour, basic
>combat load, etc. - You're already moving like
>you've got a monkey on your shoulders, and
>the enemies' bullets haven't got noticeably
>slower.
>
>Most modern squad weapons (and even the
>support det's MGs) tend to fire in bursts at
>targets of opportunity or to suppress rather
>than fully automatic versus a non-existent
>human wave. If we want to apply indirect fire,
>we use mortars. If we want to destroy
>something we really don't like, we use a
>grenade launchers, recoilless rifle, IAVR or an
>ATGM. Or we call for support.
>
>If a human wave does come, a combination of
>rapid fire from rifles and elevated fire rates
>from support weapons is probably in order, but
>so too is artillery, grenades (rifle and hand) and
>most especially, the old favorite - the Claymore
>mine. And since we're carrying all of this stuff
>around (because it *does* stuff the MG does
>not), adding extra weight to no real gain
>wouldn't make much sense.
>
>Adding water cooled weapons systems would
>mean an increased demand for logistics (more
>bits than the air cooled versions). Assuming we
>were doing this to let them fire faster/longer,
>we'd eat up more ammo we'd have to carry
>around. We'd also have to hump the coolant
>and recirculation gear. Extra weight very bad.
>
>Where might it make sense to investigate
>modern fluid cooling systems, perhaps using
>water and microtubes or perhaps using
>something like liquid nitrogen?
>
>1) If we had a rugged enough system.
>Radiators tend not to be too rugged.
>2) If we could get good cooling efficiencies
>(might work well if using things other than
>water).
>3) If we could do it in a way that didn't bulk up
>the weapons.
>4) If it was someplace the advantage the
>weapon gained was useful (say installed in the
>aforementioned targets.... I mean fixed
>defenses). It might make sense to support
>something like this in a Starship Troopers world
>with swarms of bugs, but I don't think you could
>actually carry enough ammo to win those
>fights...
>5. On a vehicle where the added
>complexity/logistics might not matter.
>6. PA is debatable. You'll need some water for
>your soldier, but you can't use that. He can't
>drink heated water and water he's drank can't
>be used to cool the weapon. Water he sweats
>out, if you could somehow catch it all, is
>probably near body temperature. And you
>aren't planning to recirc water from the blazing
>hot gunbarrel around inside the suit near the
>wearer were you? I think not. And the weight
>you spend on this cuts down armour,
>electronics, ammunition, sensor systems, or
>movement speed and increases ground
>pressure (an important issue if you don't want
>to get stuck). And of course, the whole point of
>doing this is to be able to fire more.... which
>kind of suggests more ammo yet, also robbing
>your design of further other capabilities.
>You might put something like this on a
>dedicates fire support PA suit, but even that is
>doubtful.
>
>For most cases, there is just little modern
>justification for this kind of technology for
>infantry arms. For vehicles, it is a debatable
>point, but there could be uses. For PA, in
>restricted cases, perhaps. But by en large, this
>is a thing of the past an should be relegated
>into the same bin of fantasy as steam powered
>tanks or gas powered PA. ;)
>
>(Which is to say, if it floats your boat, do it....
>but don't worry too hard about trying to justify
>it on a reality basis.....)
>
>Tomb.
>
>
>- ----------------------------------------------------
>Mr. Thomas Barclay
>Software Developer & Systems Analyst
>thomas.barclay@stargrunt.ca
>- ----------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:34:05 -0500
>From: Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
>Subject: RE: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
>
>At 12:07 AM +0000 3/12/03, CS Renegade wrote:
> >This is a job for Reason [1].
> >
> >So I've gone to the trouble and expense of putting
> >my troops in powered armour [2] and then I equip
> >them with an MG designed three hundred years ago?
>
>Umm, no. You've equipped him with a very modern machine gun that uses
>principles from 300 years ago because some systems just continue to
>work.
>
>Again, consider the need to 'hose' down advancing hordes of fuzzy
>wuzzies, Posleen, Kra'Vak, Islamic Fed or ESU troopies.
>
>Grenades are great, but what if you need low angle, direct fire?
>
> >
> >Regards vehicle radiators, I don't understand all
> >this enthusiasm for water. There's something green
> >and slimy slopping about in my radiator, and it
> >isn't just there to act as antifreeze and rust
> >inhibitor.
>
>Sounds like you aren't changing the fluid every year.
> >
> >2. Two thousand pounds of armour and psuedo-
> >    musulature amplifying the wearer's movements
> >    and moderated by negative feedback, just like
> >    Uncle Bob promised us? Needs a checklist of
> >    three hundred and forty-seven items when
> >    drawn from stores? Item 348: add water to MG?
>
>Add water to entire system. It works for maintaining the user (he
>drinks water still right?) cooling the user (he still needs a 75
>degree F environment right?), cooling the power pack (unless you've
>got something better?) and now, cooling the support weapon that the
>trooper uses.
>- --
>- --
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>- - Ryan Montieth Gill 			'01 Honda Insight -
>- - rmgill@SPAmindspring.com			       '85 CB700S -
>- - ryan.gill@SPAMturner.com		    '76 Chevy Monte Carlo -
>- - www.mindspring.com/~rmgill 		  '72 Honda CB750 -
>- -					 '60 Daimler FV701H Mk2/3 -
>- -				      '42 Daimler Scout Car Mk II -
>- -		 I speak not for CNN, nor they for me		  -
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>- -	    The director of Home Security encourages you to	  -
>- -	      turn in your neighbor & spy on your friends.	  -
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>- -  C&R-FFL  /  Protect your electronic rights!    \ EFF-ACLU   -
>- - SAF & NRA/  Join the EFF!	http://www.eff.org/   \ DoD #0780 -
>- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:03:55 -0500
>From: "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
> > Where might it make sense to investigate
> > modern fluid cooling systems, perhaps using
> > water and microtubes or perhaps using
> > something like liquid nitrogen?
>
>Liquid nitrogen is a crygenic.  It would be complicated to keep get the
>cooling cycle right to keep from damaging the barrel to by cooling it
down
>too quickly.  The there is also problem with brittleness of a frozen 
>barrel.
>It would really bite to drop your weapon and have the barrel break...
>
> > 1) If we had a rugged enough system.
> > Radiators tend not to be too rugged.
>
>Screw threads are rugged radiators, and the Steyr AUG already has them.
 
>Now
>if you combined screw threaded barrels on a gatling gun, you've got
>radiators with forced air circulation.  A three, screw threaded,
barreled
>gatling gun set for 50 round bursts could be just the ticket for PA
use...
>
>ias
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:02:09 -0500
>From: "Nicholas Caldwell" <nicholascaldwell@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Minatures Page polls
>
>If you haven't been by lately, the miniatures page is holding a couple
of
>polls regarding Full Thrust.
>
>www.theminiaturepages.com/polls/
>
>Nick Caldwell
>nicholascaldwell@earthlink.net
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:37:42 -0600
>From: "staremu" <star_emu@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Tonk Webpage
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Hey all,
>
>I put together a bunch of playtest rules and mods for the Tonk and =
>posted them on my website.  If you'd like to go check them out feel
free =
>- -
>
>http://staremu.mpgsonline.com/the_tonk.htm
>
>Thanks,
>
>Eli
>
>- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0
>Content-Type: text/html;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey all,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I put together a bunch of playtest =
>rules and mods=20
>for the Tonk and posted them on my website.&nbsp; If you'd like to go =
>check them=20
>out feel free -</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
>href=3D"http://staremu.mpgsonline.com/the_tonk.htm">http://staremu.mpgs
on=
>line.com/the_tonk.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Eli</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0--
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:34:58 +1100
>From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
>Subject: RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
>G'day Tom,
>
> > advantage when fighting a modern enemy
> > force. They tend not to attack in human waves
>
>What about waves of aliens like the guys have talked about in the John 
>Ringo
>(?) books?
>
> > For most cases, there is just little modern
> > justification...
>
>I was looking sci-fi not modern ;)
>
> > But by en large, this
> > is a thing of the past an should be relegated
> > into the same bin of fantasy as steam powered
> > tanks or gas powered PA. ;)
> > (Which is to say, if it floats your boat, do it....
> > but don't worry too hard about trying to justify
> > it on a reality basis.....)
>
>I'm in between these two extremes, I want some semi-sensible
justifications
>(as wooden space ships don't do anything for me, but steam powered
tanks
>do), but am not a necessarily super hard near sci-fi kinda person.
>
>Thanks for the info.
>
>Cheers
>
>Beth
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:34:35 -0500
>From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
>Tomb, what the hell.
>
>I suggest that Water cooled barrels in the context of Power armor
>could be a viable solution because of the following:
>
>The need for sustained fire vs high volume bursts.
>
>The need for minimal difficult to acquire consumables off of high
>tech worlds where super concentrated buckeyball cooling fluid isn't
>really available.
>
>The need for enhancing barrel length in excess of what you get with
>air cooled weapons in any materials science context.
>
>The possibility that you'd actually have to go up against waves of
>attackers (I'll bet planners didn't expect Human Waves in Korea)
>especially in far away, out of the way places where you can't get
>your high-tech buckeyball lined barrels in mass quantities to replace.
>
>The fact that water is universal, troops need it, IC engines need it,
>it's easy to make, it's easy to find unless you're on Dune and
>generally available where humans are. Water purification is fairly
>easy. Rather than needed some superduper glycol based coolant, use
>water with a bit of anti-freeze added.
>
>I'm not talking about a Vickers (1) with the bloody tripod strapped
>on to some PA troopers arm. I'm talking about a sleek barrel with a
>small, armored jacket or even set of tubes running down it's length
>that would have a return and supply line running to the back mounted
>Power and environmental unit on the PA. Run the cooling circuits in
>parallel, one air circulator slightly larger for the increased
>airflow.
>
>Your barrels will last much longer if they stay a lower temperature.
>You won't have to change barrels nearly as often and given realistic
>supply lines, you'll be able to source a more basic type of ammo from
>a variety of sources vs relying on your super supply chain all the
>way back to high tech worlds where they make your super buckey-ball
>materials.
>
>With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
>going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire use
>(air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
>barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo long
>before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling seems
>the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different methods
>at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
>use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
>
>1. From a primitive world standpoint, one very well could run up
>against local troops with such weapons based on the previously
>mentioned local technology limits. Supply of such weapons would be
>simple as would the technology needed to support such weapons. A
>water cooled weapon doesn't have all that much more parts than an air
>cooled weapon and it's likely to have lower temperature ranges given
>certain conditions.
>- --
>- --
>Ryan Gill		rmgill@SPAMmindspring.com
>- ----------------------------------------------------------
>	|	 |		     |	       -==----
>	| O--=-  |		     |	      /_8[*]°_\
>	|_/|o|_\_|	 | _________ |	      /_[===]_\
>	/ 00DA61 \	 |/---------\|	   __/	       \---
>    _w/|=_[__]_= \w_	 // [_]  o[]\\	 _oO_\	       /_O|_
>   |: O(4) ==	  O :|	_Oo\=======/_O_  |____\       /____|
>   |---\________/---|	[__O_______W__]   |x||_\     /_||x|
>    |s|\	 /|s|	|s|/BSV 575\|s|   |x|-\|     |/-|x|
>    |s|=\______/=|s|	|s|=|_____|=|s|   |x|--|_____|--|x|
>    |s|	  |s|	|s|	    |s|   |x|		|x|
>'60 Daimler Ferret '42 Daimler Dingo '42 Humber MkIV (1/2)
>- ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:49:04 -0500
>From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
>Subject: Re: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
>
>From: "Ryan M Gill" <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> > Again, consider the need to 'hose' down advancing hordes of fuzzy
> > wuzzies, Posleen, Kra'Vak, Islamic Fed or ESU troopies.
>
>IFed don't usually do the human wave route any more, now that we've
>got someplace to put our excess peasants.  And our troops are mostly
>not all *that* motivated to collect the 70 sloe-eyed virgins.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:48:37 -0500
>From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
>Subject: RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
>At 1:34 PM +1100 3/12/03, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> >G'day Tom,
> >
> >>  advantage when fighting a modern enemy
> >>  force. They tend not to attack in human waves
> >
> >What about waves of aliens like the guys have talked about in the
John 
>Ringo
> >(?) books?
>
>No, you're suppose to wave your hands about and talk about how that
>never happens. Plus if it did, you'd call on the support dudes in the
>rear with their mortars and stuff. Oh, you say, they got munched on
>the assault landing?? BOHICA then.
>
>
>- --
>- --
>Ryan Gill		rmgill@SPAMmindspring.com
>- ----------------------------------------------------------
>	|	 |		     |	       -==----
>	| O--=-  |		     |	      /_8[*]°_\
>	|_/|o|_\_|	 | _________ |	      /_[===]_\
>	/ 00DA61 \	 |/---------\|	   __/	       \---
>    _w/|=_[__]_= \w_	 // [_]  o[]\\	 _oO_\	       /_O|_
>   |: O(4) ==	  O :|	_Oo\=======/_O_  |____\       /____|
>   |---\________/---|	[__O_______W__]   |x||_\     /_||x|
>    |s|\	 /|s|	|s|/BSV 575\|s|   |x|-\|     |/-|x|
>    |s|=\______/=|s|	|s|=|_____|=|s|   |x|--|_____|--|x|
>    |s|	  |s|	|s|	    |s|   |x|		|x|
>'60 Daimler Ferret '42 Daimler Dingo '42 Humber MkIV (1/2)
>- ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:51:32 -0500
>From: "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
> > I suggest that Water cooled barrels in the context of Power armor
> > could be a viable solution because of the following:
> >
> > The need for sustained fire vs high volume bursts.
>
>You really need both, and electric gattling guns deliever both.
>
> > The need for minimal difficult to acquire consumables off of high
> > tech worlds where super concentrated buckeyball cooling fluid isn't
> > really available.
>
>Then how are you going to maintain the PA?
>
> > The need for enhancing barrel length in excess of what you get with
> > air cooled weapons in any materials science context.
>
>Most of the material in a barrel isn't to keep the pressure in.  It's
to
>keep the barrel from drooping and to act as a heat sink.
>
> > The possibility that you'd actually have to go up against waves of
> > attackers (I'll bet planners didn't expect Human Waves in Korea)
> > especially in far away, out of the way places where you can't get
> > your high-tech buckeyball lined barrels in mass quantities to
replace.
>
>Then again, how are you going to maintain the PA?  If you can't get the
>small parts to replace on the mini-gun, how are you going to get the
large
>parts to replace worn out components on the PA?
>
> > The fact that water is universal, troops need it, IC engines need
it,
> > it's easy to make, it's easy to find unless you're on Dune and
> > generally available where humans are. Water purification is fairly
> > easy. Rather than needed some superduper glycol based coolant, use
> > water with a bit of anti-freeze added.
>
>Just don't try using it on Hoth...
>
> > I'm not talking about a Vickers (1) with the bloody tripod strapped
> > on to some PA troopers arm. I'm talking about a sleek barrel with a
> > small, armored jacket or even set of tubes running down it's length
> > that would have a return and supply line running to the back mounted
> > Power and environmental unit on the PA. Run the cooling circuits in
> > parallel, one air circulator slightly larger for the increased
> > airflow.
>
>Some how I suspect that the power jack built into the mounting point
for a
>mini-gun would be much less sensative shrapnel damage...
>
> > Your barrels will last much longer if they stay a lower temperature.
> > You won't have to change barrels nearly as often and given realistic
> > supply lines, you'll be able to source a more basic type of ammo
from
> > a variety of sources vs relying on your super supply chain all the
> > way back to high tech worlds where they make your super buckey-ball
> > materials.
>
>Yet again, how are you going to maintain the PA?  I wouldn't be to
quick on
>the ammo sourcing.  Higher tech ammo opperates at higher pressure. 
This
>means that unless your gun is externally powered, it won't cycle the
weapon
>reliable, if at all.  So now you have both coolent lines and a power
jack 
>if
>you want a reliable weapon.  Why not just go with a mini-gun and get
rid of
>the coolent lines?
>
> > With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
> > going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire
use
> > (air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
> > barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo
long
> > before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling
seems
> > the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different
methods
> > at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
> > use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
>
>Electric gattling guns both provide high rate of fire bursts AND slow
>sustained rate of fire.  The six barreled GE XM214 5.56 mini-gun is
>typically NOT set at its maximum rate of fire of 10,000 rpm.  Typically
it
>is set at between 400 and 4,000 rpm.  That means the typical settings
for a
>three barreled 5.56 mini-gun would be between 200 and 5,000 rpm.
>
> > 1. From a primitive world standpoint, one very well could run up
> > against local troops with such weapons based on the previously
> > mentioned local technology limits. Supply of such weapons would be
> > simple as would the technology needed to support such weapons. A
> > water cooled weapon doesn't have all that much more parts than an
air
> > cooled weapon and it's likely to have lower temperature ranges given
> > certain conditions.
>
>I still say that if you can maintian PA, you can maintain electric
gattling
>guns...
>
>ias
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:17:44 +1100
>From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>
>Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
>
>From: "Ryan Gill" <rmgill@mindspring.com>
>
> > With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
> > going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire
use
> > (air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
> > barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo
long
> > before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling
seems
> > the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different
methods
> > at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
> > use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
>
>...or you can make the barrels disposable. Change barrel when you
change
>magazine. Barrles can then be made so light (because they don't have to
>last more than a few rounds) that the weight penalty might even be
>negative.
>
>See Metal Storm.
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of The GZG Digest V2 #1544
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