RE: Shotguns

Fleet Anti-Terrorist Security Team.

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Barclay [mailto:kaladorn@magma.ca] 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 3:49 PM
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Shotguns

One of our listers said:

Hehe, I served in the USMC on FAST team 
1 for four years

[Tomb] FAST? 

 and I can tell you that the shotgun is much 
much better then your standard assault 
rifle in CQB.

[Tomb] Proviso: You are not engaging 
opponents in hardshell armour or with 
armoured exoskeleton. 

  There are several reasons for this, but 
primarily because of flexibility with 
ammunition types (light loads for indoor 
work, so you don't hit your buddies through 
walls, etc..chees cutters for
knocking down wood doors...).  

[Tomb] A number of US SWAT/ERT teams 
have shifted off of 00 and some have even 
shifted from 12 ga. to 20 ga. shotguns to 
deal with the overpenetration issue (and 
most 12 ga. use tactical loads as you 
illustrate). 

With shot you get a larger spread and can 
open up the choke to really use it to sweep
hallways and rooms.

[Tomb] Will this be select-on-the-fly in 
2183?

  Plus shotguns tend to be shorter on the
whole and more easily wielded in urban 
terrain.

[Tomb] And I've seen it suggested that 
some may even have small 18mm 
microgrenades made for them. Given the 
OICW includes a 20mm GL, I can see 
18mm grenades being useful and house 
clearing loves grenades....

 However I have to question it being better 
then an assault rifle against something like 
powered armor, unless of course you
are using solid slugs ;)

[Tomb] I assume a solid standard slug is 
useless. I assume the impact isn't enough 
to be singularly dangerous. I suspect with a 
sci-fi shotgun, you'll have some kind of 
multi-feed system to allow you to shift 
ammo on the fly (rather than preset load 
order). This will give you access to a mix of 
rounds (limited by what a barrel can fire) 
but these could include slug, shot, flechette 
(good against ballistic cloth, not so hot 
against modern composite armours), 
saboted penetrators, shok-lock style anti-
obstruction ammo, and of course the main 
threat I see for PA at close ranges, 
something that fires an 18mm "electronics 
killer" or an 18mm Dragon's Breath round. 
For law enforcement or military use, the 
idea of getting something like a MetalStorm 
shotgun (being able to fire multiple ammo 
types at will) would allow for a wide range 
of ammo selection on the fly. (This could, 
in a police context, include tranq and 
beanbag as well as one lethal loadout). 

[Tomb] Someone mentioned "scalloping" 
(the technique of aim-off so that the edge 
of your scatter radius takes a target with 
some of the shot). This is sometimes 
trained by ERT guys who might have to 
take down a baddie behind a hostage but 
obviously is an *extreme circumstances* 
option due to unpredictable shot scatter 
and the difficulty of getting it just right 
(and if you don't, the hostage won't like 
you much). There's even a round that uses 
two steel anchor balls and suspends a 
small chain or wire between them (nasty 
for anything it hits, but more "interesting" 
than practical unless you need to cut ropes 
or something). 

[Tomb] A buddy in the a police force sent 
me an advisory they were issued that 
showed the effects of the dragonsbreath 
rounds. Rather.... violently pyrotechnic. 
And not something you'd want to be on the 
other side of. It showed a test against a 
ballistic vest with reinforcing plating. The 
ballistic fabric was destroyed and the 
plating was bent and twisted by the impact 
of the dragonsbreath shot. These things 
will kill a shotgun barrel, but with a 
metalstorm like barrel, you might not care 
and they do hideous things at range under 
30 ft. if you don't care about the 
pyrotechnic side effects. 

Some interesting links:
http://www.mkballistics.com/special.htm
http://www.ozarkmtns.com/less-lethal/#Power%20Punch
(note some of the 40mm GL options above!)
http://www.nonlethal.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/sabot/
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/Shotguns.html
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh25-e.htm
(a very good listing)

And a sci-fi (traveller) link:
http://weapons.travellercentral.com/tech/shotgun.html

----------------------------------------------------
Mr. Thomas Barclay
Software Developer & Systems Analyst
thomas.barclay@stargrunt.ca
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