Re: Fir-Built Frigates

>One of the most interesting things I have found about the perception of
the

>US Navy of the period is how people never scratch past the surface, the
US

>navy frigates were at first glance better ships,

I'd say at second, third and fourth too. They were 4th-rate liners in
all but
name. Razee-50s* were closer to the USN 44s than were the standard Brit
32 gun
frigate.

> but at that point the US 
>Navy was a Brown water navy operating on short cruises relatively close
to

>their bases. 

I beg to differ: remember that some of the USN ( as opposed to
letter-of-marque)
ships did things like sink Brit whalers off Indonesia, burn Scotch
distilleries
in Scotland, etc.

>As a result their frigates carried more guns, so much so that 
>in some cases the number of guns carried actually warped the ship's
hulls.

They were also BIGGER. A hell of a lot bigger. Made of superior,
lightweight
materials. OK, so they didn't last as long. OK, in a strong gale, they'd
be
hard pressed to keep afloat. OK ( insert long list of reasons why
although better
tactically, they were a dead-end in the long term ).

>The British on the other hand went on cruises lasting years and had to 
>carry the supplies required.

Similarly with the US ships in the Pacific.

But the technology was only part of it. The point was that the USN of
1812 was
the only navy in the world whose personnel was even remotely as
proficient as
that of the RN. The RN, being perfectly used to taking on larger, better
ships
and winning hands-down due to sheer superior ability got wiped on
several occasions.
Any RN Captain of a 32 or 36 frigate or even a 28 sloop when confronted
with
an enemy "frigate" was expected to take it on and win, as they always
had done
in the past. Hence the losing streak. It was only when the captain of
HMS Shannon
(with an above-average crew) took on a US below-average crew that odds
were
in his favour.

In FT terms, it would be like expecting a Furious class to take on and
win against
a Richtofen, as "they're both cruisers".

*Razee - cut down a deck. Take an obsolete 64 or 74 (ie a 3-deck warship
with
64/74 guns), rip off a deck to make it lighter and more manouverable. In
FT
terms, take a Maria von B, rip off half the armour, the PT and 2 of the
Type