Re: Force sizes-Confusing US ranks - MORE Ranks, Canadian perspective. (and laughing with DAWGIE)

Hi folks,

DAWGIE, your post nearly killed me I was laughing so hard.  Nearly
busted a
gut...

>
>you know this	is pretty stupid, even for NATO.
>

<snip>

>
>THIS GOD LIKE INDIVIDUAL, WITH SMART TURN OUT, PACE STICK, LEATHER
>LUNGS, AND BULL DOG OR  FIGHTING COCK PERSONA IS TRULY UNIQUE! TO THE
UK
>MILITARY TRADITION!
>
>this is true of all Commonwealth nation armies and marine  corps. 

<snip>

>"THAT MAN!"
>
>"YOU 'ORRIBLE LITTLE MAN!"

People think Monty Python was *kidding* when they parodied this...

Watching a Sergeant Major take someone to task is an awsome sight, and
the
good ones have it down like an art form.

Anyway, I thought I'd add in a bit of Canadian perspective for this
ranks
discussion.

The Canadian army (coming out of the Commonwealth tradition) has a rank
structure similar to the British. 

Private Recruit
Private
Corporal
Master Corporal
Sergeant
Warrent Officer (WO III)
Master Warrent Officer (WO II)
Chief Warrent Officer (WO I)

The officer ranks are the same as the Americans, though we have "Officer
Cadet" below Second Lieutenant (OC does not yet have a commission, and
does
not have to be saluted).  In our Navy, we reinstituted the rank of
Commodore as the lowest Flag rank, so the navy now goes

Commodore
Rear Admiral
Vice Admiral
Admiral

at the flag levels.  Our army and airforce Flag ranks are the same as
the US.

The issue of equivalency is a difficult one, seemingly.  As DAWGIE
pointed
out, while NATO might say that a US corporal = a UK corporal, that is,
in
practice, probably not true, from the perspective of what the person
holding the rank does.

As someone else pointed out, a fire team commander in the US army is
"officially" (according to TOE's which are probably never met in the
*actual* units) a Sergeant.  A squad leader is a (Staff Sergeant)?

Is that right?

In the British army, a squad leader is usually a corporal.  In the
Canadian
army, a Master Corporal or Sergeant.

The rank of "Corporal" in the UK army is a full NCO, and I believe their
Lance Corporals are treated as such also.  In Canada, for some reason (I
think having to do with wanting to differentiate us from the Brits -
stupid
politicking) they eliminated the rank "Lance Corporal", and created the
rank "Master Corporal".  A master corporal would be a fire team or
section
commander.

A WO-III (Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a platoon.  A
WO-II
(Master Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a company, and would
probably be called "Sarn't Major", even though the Canadian Army does
not
actually have an official rank OR appointment called "Sergeant Major"
any
more.

A WO-I (Chief Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a
Regiment/battalion, and would be called "RSM" or "Regimental Sergeant
Major" in practice.

We have "appointments" as well as ranks, as do many/most armed forces.
There is no Rank above WO-I, but not all WO-I's are created equal.  One
could be appointed as a Command Chief Warrent Officer (of a really large
formation), a Base Chief Warrent Officer (of a major installation), and
so
on.  The mightyest of them all is the "Canadian Forces Chief Warrant
Officer" who is the senior NCO in the Canadian Forces.	We still have
the
appointments "Pipe Major", "Drum Major", "Trumpet Major", and "Bugle
Major"
also.

One would not want to get on the wrong side of a CWO (WO-I) - for the
reasons DAWGIE points out.

So, a US buck Sergeant is probably equivalent to a UK Lance Corporal or
Corporal, and a Canadian Master Corporal.

The Canadian rank of "Corporal" is theoretically an NCO rank, but it
isn't
really anymore.  The two most populous ranks in the entire CF are
Corporals
and Captains.  If you get a commission, you'll be a Captain as long as
you
get your time in.  If you're in as a ranker, you'll get to be Corporal
as
long as you have the time in and proper trade qualifications, etc. 
Getting
past Captain and past Corporal requires more work, courses, time,
experience, skill, (political connections...?), etc.

Personally, I think "Master Corporal" sounds silly, but what the hell...
Adds a bit of character I guess.

--------------

Oh, btw, I saw "Blade II" tonight.  Lots of over-the-top action and
violence.  Quite gory in parts.  A triumph of style over substance -
though
I thought it was a lot of fun and enjoyed it.  If you liked the first
film,
you'll probably like this one...

G'night everyone!

Adrian

***************************************

Adrian Johnson
adrian@stargrunt.ca
http://www.stargrunt.ca