Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR

Brian Bilderback wrote:

> Mark Reindl wrote:
>
> Lucky for your students.  Not all of us as STUDENTS had those kinds of
> teachers.  Many of mine were dedicated and caring, and a few truly
were
> excellent and had the above attitude, but most chose to brush past any
> student who didn't "fit in."

As do some of my colleagues.  Speaking only for myself, I think it's
important
to try to reach each student.  However, I'm enough of a realist to know
that
it's virtually impossible to do so for every single one.

> >Of course, some of the most gifted students I've seen have also
> >been some of the laziest.
>
> Some.  I struggled all through school, and I'm sure some of my
teachers
> thought I was lazy, but I wasn't.  It was more a problem with how they
> expected me to learn, and how my brain wanted to learn, and the vast
gulf
> between the two.  While in Grade school in Idaho, I was tested and
they
> determined I had a high IQ but a learning disability.  They didn't
bother to
> figure out what that LD was, or to do anyhting about it except to send
me to
> a special room a couple hours a week where they lumped all the
"Gifted" and
> "challenged" kids together with one very caring but overworked
teacher.
> Mind you, this is more a reflection on the administration system than
on
> teachers, but that doesn't change just how useless it was to me.

No it doesn't.	But if a teacher is at all cognizant of what's happening
in the
classroom, he/she ought to be able to pick up on that fact.  I can
definitely
tell the difference between someone who's lazy and someone who
struggles, mainly
due to the fact that I use a variety of methods to teach my classes.

>
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, that's the core of it.	Which is why some of
> > > > > us should become teachers
> > > > > ourselves.
> >
> >Hmm, what about those of us who *are* teachers?  I would strongly
> >encourage you to put your money where your mouth is.  See how much
fun it
> >is to jump through the hoops to become a teacher.
>
> Actually, that's exactly what I'm in school studying to do, thanks. 
As for
> those of us who ARE teachers, my hat is off to you.  My comment was
made as
> somewone who DOES want to put his money where his mouth is, and is
actively
> pursuing that end.  But it would have been too much trouble to find
that out
> before you merely made a snide remark, wouldn't it have been?

It wasn't a snide remark at all, sorry if you took it that way.  It was
an
attempt to point out to those who were commenting on this thread that
perhaps
they ought to consider the possibility that some in the audience might
actually
belong to the group upon which they wished to heap their ire.  And, if
you'll
notice, I acknowledged that I might not have all of the information on
all of
you, and did indeed request that, so I fail to see the need for either
you or
John (who emailed me privately) to take me to task for that.  Might I
suggest
that you read the entire post in the future, then comment on it?

> Wow.	 That's SUCH an accurate description of how I think things are -
I'm
> totally delusional, yes.  Thanks for showing me the light.

Now *that* is a snide comment.	The reason I stated it that way is
because many
people going into teaching, myself included, tend to have that view or
one
similar to it prior to going into the field.  It was (and still is to
some
extent) a bothersome fact that no matter what I do, how I teach, how
hard I
work, or how I interact with the kids, some are going to slip through
the
cracks.  It pisses me off to see so much potential go down the drain,
but it's
going to happen no matter what.  I hope you're ready to deal with that,
but I'll
comment more on that below.

> Ah, yes.  Because students' experiences are not valid.  I know that's
not
> what you really mean, but that's exactly the perceived attitude that
many of
> us, especially those of us who were viewed as "Special cases,"
encountered
> in school.  Actually, my issue is not with your feelings/ideas about
> education.  However, when you assumed that I was just spouting off and
not
> backing up my opinion with a course of action, THAT I DID take issue
with.

Ah, no.  Nowhere did I state that an opinion formed as a student was not
valid.
In fact, the whole frigging reason I asked if you had any experience
other than
as a student was to ascertain if anyone was either in or going into the
field of
teaching.  I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I'm afraid
that you
jumped the gun on that one.   I made no assumptions about anyone, I
thought I
made that clear.

> A valid point.  I'd also like to point out, however, that "Teacher" is
as
> broad a term as "scientist."	 Bearing in mind that the range of
skills and
> talents required to teach are as broad as the spectrum of students,
their
> ages, and the subkects taught, is it possible that while you are
probably an
> excellent teacher, there might just be certain levels of teaching and
> development you are not AS well-versed in, and is it therefore
possible that
> the experiences of a student at that level, particularly an observant
one,
> might be just as valid as your own views?  Just a thought.

Well, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has been (and still
is) a
student, and is a teacher.  As a bit of background, I've been teaching
now for
ten years, mostly at the high school level, although I've got several
years of
middle school experience as well.  I've taught everything from	a
low-level math
class up to and including (in my current assignment) Advanced Placement
US
History.  I've been involved in extracurricular activities including
coaching
sports (basketball, although not very well!), Academic Decathlon, Mock
Trial,
and JSA.  In addition, I am also currently working on a Masters Degree
in
Educational Technology.  My goal here isn't to bust anyone's chops, but
to
explain the reality of teaching and education.	I am, quite frankly,
tired of
all of the potshots that people have taken at education within the past
few
years in particular.  A student's observations are no less valid *for
that
student* than my own are for me; in that respect they are equal. 
However,
students, no matter how intelligent, observant, and mature, still lack
some
fundamental understanding of the system because they are not exposed to
it
fully.	They don't (can't and shouldn't necessarily) know everything
that goes
on, so how can they make reasoned judgements about what is right and
wrong
beyond their classroom?  In that case, I'll refer you to my previous
statement
about expertise.  I realize I'm probably not being too clear here, so
I'll try
to put it into military terms (to clarify for myself if nothing else). 
It's
like the difference between a recruit and a combat veteran.  You can
train that
recruit, teach him how to survive in combat and how to use his weapon,
but you
can't make him understand what combat is like; the only thing that will
suffice
for that is combat.  And when it starts, they find out that 90% of their
training is bullshit.  So what you get many times are recruits who strut
around
talking about how they're going to kick everyone's ass once the shooting
starts,
but end up being the ones at the bottom of the foxhole screaming for
mama once
it does.  That's the best analogy I can think of, and I can only say
that it
comes from experience.	You're working towards becoming a teacher? 
Kudos to you
as well.  I am curious since you're working for your Masters if you
intend on
teaching at the secondary level, or community college.	Regardless, what
you
will find is that just like that recruit, much of what you're learning
and
thinking right now will turn out to be next to useless in a classroom. 
Much of
what you remember as a student will simply not apply because you'll be
in a
different role in that school.	And finally, if you haven't been told
this
before, approximately 1/2 of the people who enter the teaching
profession leave
within five years due to the stress and requirements placed upon them. 
I went
through the program ten years ago with 25 other people, and can count on
one had
the number that I know for sure are still teaching.  You can take or
leave what
I've said, and I suspect you may do more of the latter, which doesn't
bother
me.  Should you decide to respond to this, I look forward to it.  But
before you
do, realize two things.  First, I was in no way, shape, or form trying
to pick
on anyone, yourself included, for having opinions.  Nor did I make any
assumptions about anyone, as I specifically asked about background in my
previous message.  And second, always be willing to learn and challenge
your own
assumptions, whether you learn from students, administrators, parents,
or
college instructors.  As I said, I've been doing this for ten years, and
had
that second lesson reiterated to me rather strongly just this last week
at
school.  Finally, I would look forward to revisiting this discussion
with you
after you've had a few years of teaching under your belt.