colonial weapons (and other stuff)

Ryan said:

Wow. Really, even Fax machines come with Backup systems?

[Tomb] That depends on 1) how expensive my fax is with and without a
backup. If a fax costs me equivalent of $10 today and a backup adds $1,
but I might not be able to repair it if I don't by the redundant
self-repair capability, then I'll spend the extra buck if I'm going to
Nowhere VII. 

 Does that 
mean we don't need the Armored recovery vehicle for the tanks in a 
battle?

[Tomb] This would depend on how fast you need the repair. 

 I mean if the nanites can fix the basic technology fax 
machine by themselves, couldn't each tank carry around a barrel full 
of them to fix the broken track, grav impeller, wheel, smoking hole 
in the armor?

[Tomb] Regenerating armour I can see. The others, some of them might be
doable to. But the thing is how fast will this work and will you not
have other battlefield constraints that make recovery fast an issue?
This isn't strictly analogous to the machine shop example. If my machine
shop is down for a week, it may be a problem. But if it fixes itself and
I keep a backlog of certain key spares, that isn't a problem. 

>2) colnies without educated people? Not from the NAC I think. I think 
>if you look at who might want to get off-earth, you may find a lot of 
>people who have valuable skills and want to craft a future for

Not with out. But why is a Computer engineer going to move to a 
mining world when he has a very viable job back at New Avalon? Sure 
he may get contracted out, but you aren't going to have 400 Chip 
fabrication specialist that are also Miners.

[Tomb] It'll be too expensive to ship out lasers and fancy fabs, but
shipping raw ore will work? What are they mining? Unobtainium?
Fantasium? 

[Tomb] I suspect you'll find that there are lots of computer engineers
who'd consider a move to a new fledgling colony on a nice new world if
they were promised 100 prime acres and a job in the central city as
network administrator - being a key player in something (even a small
thing) appeals to an awful lot of geeks, as does the pioneer/build
something spirit. Some people will want to stay near Uber University or
Uber Corp, but there are enough that are willing to work for a different
kind of compensation. Crap, look to the Open Source and Free Software
movements.... 

Certain industries are going to be non existent on smaller colony 
worlds. PERIOD. Eventually they will make it. But it will take time. 
One can extend this sort of idea to certain states.

[Tomb] These will fall into two categories: ones which nobody needs
enough to spend the money on (and that are expensive) such as luxury
goods, and ones which are UberNew. But UberNew for 2183 is not a
self-repairing basic machine shop and dishwasher sized basic chip fab
IMHO.
15 years ago, your toaster didn't have microchips. 20 years ago, watches
didn't. Now your watch can be a computer that can blow away a lot of old
desktops in certain ways. 200 years from now, the world won't be much
like we'd recognize, I fear. 

I can go to North Dakota and find lots of farmers. I won't find a 
factory that fabricates chips.

[Tomb] Because it is cheaper to locate it somewhere else and the cost of
shipping is minimal and the supply is reasonably gauranteed. 

 I won't likely find many people that 
can even burn e-proms in their basement work shop either.

[Tomb] If you include the cities in ND, I think you'd find more than a
few. How many Ham Radio operators do you think there are? How many
people that are jackleg mechanics? Lots. If the necessity exists for a
thing, the skills to work it appear eventually. If it can't be imported
cheaper, and the argument I believe indicated that mass transport of
goods might be expensive to preclude this. 

 If I wanted 
to suddenly locate a business in North Dakota to make computers, I'm 
going to have a hard time getting it set up.  I won't have enough 
skilled workers for that industry. I won't have any nearby 
contractors for parts or supplies I'll need.

[Tomb] And when you plan a colony, you'd only take farmers eh? You'd
never bother planning out your initial roster or immigration incentives
to help counterbalance your shortcomings? There are a lot of fisherman
in Newfoundland and New Brunswick, but there is a growing High Tech
community because the governments are making it attractive. If ND made
it attractive, business would locate there as would skilled labour. 

 I will be shipping 
harddrives, components, power supplies, CRTs, connectors, memory and 
processors from out side of the country. Sure, I could get cases 
fabricated there easy. But, I could set the same kind of factory up 
in Silicon valley and be set for everything I need, there would be 
local businesses with those fields already set up. Either as brokers 
that bring it in from else where, or items that are made in-situ.

Granted, shipping is cheap, but, if it's so cheap, why aren't there 
computer makers in North Dakota?

[Tomb] Everything has to locate somewhere and sometimes that is just a
momentum thing. And ND probably isn't on the radar of people looking for
a high tech HQ. And if you are the first business into an area, it is
hard for your HR to steal guys from the other company. But that's some
of the profit based issues. A colonial administration has different
issues and different tools and incentives to offer. If the gov't of ND
offered programmers a huge ranch for moving there and advertised all the
great family reasons to live in ND, I think you'd see some movement
(especially if they at the same time lured companies with tax breaks).
It's all a matter of your offer relative to other places.... and if
colonies want to make themselves attractive to educated and mobile
workers, it can be done. Sometimes it is about lifestyle, sometimes
opportunity, sometimes money. Always about optics (advertise!). 

During WWII Austrialia and South Africa didn't have sufficient 
industrial base to build many of the things being built in the United 
States. They didn't have the ability to build anything beyond light 
armored vehicles. Austrailia did have one Locomotive foundry as I 
recall and by the time the had finished with their tank design, it'd 
already been surpassed by factory production in the US and in the UK. 
Just ramping up production took long enough that the distance issue 
with shipping them there was easier than making them in-situ. They 
eventually got things working, but the lack of industrial base for 
that particular item was long in coming. Realize this was due to a 
wartime need where there was an enemy just off the coast apparently 
ready to invade.

[Tomb] You know, this discussion reminds me of a group of generals
preparing to fight the next war by preparing to fight the _last_ war.
What went on there in WW2 has some value as a case study, but does not
necessarily acknowledge the changing capabilities of industry,
especially on the micromanufacturing scale. Nor does it acknowledge the
general increase in educational levels. Nor other factors. History is
interesting, the trick is ferreting out the pertinent while realizing
how the world does and will differ from what has gone before.

Austrailia wasn't a struggling colony. They weren't a failing colony. 
They just didn't have the industry present to do that. South Africa 
eventually built her own defense industry, but it took years and lots 
of really hard work to do it. It wasn't a back yard project either.

[Tomb] Unless you are suggesting all colonies will be created out of 100
people and a shoestring budget, I don't see that as a valid comparison
either. South Africa evolved a defense industry when it became apparent
procuring foreign arms was going to be very tough. It offered to solve
that problem plus offer export opportunities. Similarly, if a colony can
get something easily by importing and cheaply, they will. As the access
to the good goes away or costs increase, the incentive to manufacture it
locally will go up. If we're positing expensive space travel, then the
INTIAL incentive to be able to handle almost anything you need (and to a
reasonable level of sophistication) will be high. And that alone creates
a market for the design and manufacture of things to make this possible!
Right now, colonization isn't really a business opportunity. By 2183, it
will probably be a big market. 

You are correct here. Likely there will be some planetary defense 
force of some sort even so. Quakers/Amish will likely be just as 
happy being a small settlement on a larger planet.

[Tomb] Very true. Mind you, some of the groups might be happier away
from everybody else. And there may be a class of settler that is always
moving to the next new settlement - once you get more than three