Re: [semi-OT] black hawk down?

At 04:21 PM 1/22/02 -0800, you wrote:

>--- Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree, I'm suspecting it will be a hard movie to
> > watch. Knowing the
> > drama and carnage was stuff that really well
> > happened and for once,
> > Hollyweird isn't having to add a lot of drama to the
> > plot (from what
> > little I've heard of the movie).
>
>The worst part was where the medic and an SSG were
>working on a kid's severed artery.

DYM Hollywood added this bit?

> > A major fubar of a mission that should have worked.
>
>Bullshit--it's a goddamn miracle this CF didn't go
>south on a prior mission.  Every time they left the
>compound they went out the same route and did more or
>less the same things.

Reading the book now (only in the first chapter) but according to the 
author, the Rangers DID vary their routes and methods.	Choppers out,
land 
vehicles in; land vehicles out, choppers in; choppers or land vehicles
both 
ways.

>They go into bandit country
>KNOWING they were outnumbered, with minimal air
>support and without coordinating a QRF to come get
>them if things go south?

Horrible timing, but they figured the prize was worth it.  20/20 says it

was dumb, but if the Blackhawks don't go down and screw everything up, 
would it have caught Adid? Don't know.
But I agree, backups to backups.  The planning wasn't where it should
have 
been.

>The Ranger NCOs dropped the
>ball 100% on PCC/PCIs--for which a number of deaths
>are directly attributable (ie: The guy who leaves the
>back plate out of his RBA saying "I don't plan on
>getting shot in the back by some skinny" and gets,
>sure as shit, shot in the back by a skinny).

Oh, yeah.  NCO's are supposed to be the snarling SOB's that make
soldiers 
do what they're supposed to do, not what they want to do.

>The
>Rangers, as a matter of fact, acted more like Boy
>Scouts on a camping trip than the highly professional
>elite troops that they claim to be.  For God's sake,
>they left two guys behind on the exfil!  Their company
>commander flaked out and became a psychiatric casualty
>halfway into the fight.  If it weren't for Delta
>operators stiffening the Rangers and the initiative of
>a handful of NCOs, this would have been a far worse
>CF.
>
> > The threat that
> > RPG-7's cause to Helo's wasn't well recognized. Not
> > having armour at
> > hand to bull their way in was another problem. The
> > fact that every
> > mother's son that had an AK in the area decided to
> > come over and take
> > a pot shot also didn't help.
>
>They knew they were inserting into Aideed's stronghold
>and they knew that every adult male in Somalia carries
>a weapon.  Even those who aren't fulltime fighters are
>part of local neighborhood self defense militias.
>
>Lessons Learned:
>
>1)Do your damn PCC/PCIs.  Take freakin' water, NVGs,
>and ALL YOUR BODY ARMOR.
>2)Testosterone does NOT make you bulletproof (Rangers,
>Airborne, Light Infantry take note).
>3)Failing to coordinate with relief forces is lethal.
>4)Failure to make contingency plans (ie, what happens
>if a helicoptor goes down?) sets yourself up for
>failure.

There was a CSAR team in case a chopper went down.  From the movie 
(remember, I'm only a chapter into the book), it seems like the CSAR
team 
wasn't beefy enough.  What if it was two Blackhawks, a squad in each and
a 
couple of gunships?  They get the pilots and crew out, the Rangers evac
as 
per the plan, and US fatalities are 5-6.  A lot fewer Somali's die too.

>5)Failure to take your opponent seriously causes
>mental shock and failure to think clearly on the part
>of your leadership.
>6)Armored vehicles are the only things that can
>operate with impunity against large numbers of
>hostiles.  Yes, they would be vulnerable to RPGs.  But
>less so than goddamn HMMWVs!!
>
>John
>
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