Re: [ft] Fighter Momentum Conservation (was:[OT]UnpredictableAI)

Beth Fulton wrote:

>  >There are only so many types of fighters in the game.
>  >As opposed to the near infinate number of ship
>  >designs possible.
>
> Sorry that was my misinterpretation, I thought you meant it would be
easier
> to keep track of their movement/orders, I do agree keeping track of
how
> many are dead etc is easier.

Ahh.  On that point (move orders..) they would take as much scribble
time as
ships...

I do admit that I am not a very eloquent person, and sometimes I forget
to
mention things...:-(

>  >Just means that if you want to dogfight,
>  >new tactics are necessary.	These ships
>  >are in space...not air, or water.  Means everything
>  >moves the same way. Momentum
>  >should be observed for all objects.
>  >Not just because it is a ship.
>
> True, which is why (in the context of introducing that momentum to
fighters
> too) I suddenly wondered why "If both wish to, they both stop right
there
> and continue the dogfight." ;)

I should have mentioned that if it was in their thrust capasity. 
Otherwise one
or both will have to spend thrust to "slew around".

>
>  >Well, how big a weapon do you think a
>  >fighter can carry?	Thats one of the reasons
>  >they are called fighters.  If they could carry
>  >destroyer weapons, they would be
>  >called destroyers...
>
> I'm not disagreeing with that, but if fighters are made to move like
ships
> without giving them thrust abilities that are ludicrously high then
they
> won't get into range consistently enough to do any damage, so you're
back
> to the problem of fighters (effectively) "being left behind" by the
ships.
> (Though in context of comments further down I'm saying this from a
> perspective we're we write orders for ships and so if fighters were to
be
> dealt with like ships....)
>

We never bothered...just moved the units however we felt neccessary. 
(according
to the rules of course.)

> But doesn't the immense speed they can attain give them flexibility
beyond
> what ships can match? They can turn on a pinhead and go back the other
way
> (essentially) when in the same time period ships would seem like
they're
> taking an age to turn... bit like fighters really being cinematic
whereas
> ships are in vector (relatively speaking). At least that's what it
seemed
> like to a dunderhead like me ;)
>

At it's simplest...air and water behave according to the same rules. 
Air is
simply "alot" less dense than the water.  In space the only differance
(besides
their size) is how high their thrust to weight ratio is.  If space
fighters are
built anything like current jet fighters, they will have enormous thrust
to
weight ratios.	Ships OTOH will have poor ones.  They will just have
enormous
amounts of fuel/whatever.

Ships and fighters have different tradeoffs.  Fighters are trading
endurance,
number of "shots", ect -- for speed.  That is: the ability to deliver a
respectable amount of firepower to a given location or enemy unit in a
short
time.
Ships on the otherhand give up speed inorder to have enormous endurance,
awesome
firepower, large crews, ect.  When it does catch something...it dies.
They used to say about the old fighting ships is that they could kill
anything
it's size and smaller, and outrun anything larger.

In a space enviroment, the same things will still apply.  Fighters won't
be able
to partisipate in a "stern chase" like a ship -- without a carrier. 
Ships will
still seem to take "ages" to turn, ect.

>  Have you had much of an opportunity (like at cons) to see how games
with
> orders compare to your games without and do see if it changes the
game? I'm
> just interested as we've always written orders in FT.

Never been to a con.  Sounds like an enormous amount of fun!
(Where I live, any drive longer than a 1/2 hour is a "vacation".  There
isn't
any cons near me that I know of...Say does anyone know where to check
for local
cons?)

We would try to play a game once according to the rules...after that, we
would
agree that the order writing seemed like a drag, and that part would get
dropped.

I guess we are in too much of a hurry/or too exited.

> Cheers
>
> Beth
>
>
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Donald Hosford