Re: [FT] Should all Beams fire at fighters/ordinance?

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On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Alan and Carmel Brain wrote:

> From: "Derk Groeneveld" <derk@cistron.nl>
> 
> > Sea Sparrow is DEFINATELY beyond visual range capable.
> 
> Sorry, I *do* know the effective range of the NSSMS. And
> can't comment except in generalities.
> 
> The Nato Sea Sparrow Missile System was originally called
> the BPMDS - Basic Point Defence Missile System, and was
> steered via an optical tracker. Hint Hint. And a missile that
> can travel 20 Miles when launched from an aircraft in the
> thin atmosphere at 40,000 ft going at Mach 0.9 has a much
> greater range than the same missile launched in the souplike
> atmosphere at sea level that has to crawl its way up to altitude
> from an essentially stationary launcher. Hint Hint. Of course
> later versions of the Sparrow had an increased range, but not
> by that much.

- From Janes:

"The AIM-7 Sparrow missile is an all-weather all-aspect air-to-air
missile
which has also been adapted for use with shipboard air defence systems.
... The semi-active radar-guided Sparrow 3 development programme started
in 1955, the first missiles entered service with the US Navy and Air
Force
in 1958 as AIM-7C Sparrow. Successive developments have created a large
family of missiles, moving through AIM-7D,, -&E, ..." 

"A ship-launched surface-to-air missile, RIM-7H, is a variant of AIM-7E
and it's called Sea Sparrow." 

Also, the STIR and APAR radar systems we build over here incorporate
continuous wave target illumination for both Sea Sparrow and Evolved Sea
Sparrow (ESSM). I can't imagine a good many navies ordering illumination
capability for a missile that's optically guided ;) Are you SURE that
was
Sea Sparrow you were talking about?

According to Janes the maximum range is 15 to 20,000m, depending on
illuminator radar range. And I can't comment on the range of our
illuminator radar's, but I wouldn't worry about them. The range isn't as
much as I thought it was; been working with the numbers of SM-2 and ESSM
too much, lately, I guess ;)

The ESSM should have both higher range and speed than Sea Sparrow.
 
> > > Yep, and a CIWS is limited by magazine space also,
> > > ever see it modelled in a game that was playable?
> > > For game purposes more than 10 shots might as well
> > > be infinite and not a concern.
> >
> > Unless your CIWS is an energy weapon.
> >
> > More than 10 shots is optimistic, though, if you're talking
> > modern systems. Goalkeeper is not designed to handle 10 missile
> > engagements. And as for Phalanx; I'd rather have even a single burst
> > goalkeeper ;)
> 
> So would I. GK's good for about 5 engagements if memory serves.

Mmm. Can't comment.

> But I'd rather still have an Oerlikon-Contraves Zurich "Sea Zenith"
> quadruple 25mm mount that fires APFSDS. And has ammo for 14
engagements.
> And can be reloaded while firing, so essentially is only limited by
the
> magazine
> capacity (usually 30 engagements per mount). 

Nice. Oh, GK also has an optional rapid reload drum that reloads the
entire ammo supply in very short time.

> BUT unlike GK and VP requires
>  a separate FC radar.

Which is a bitch if your command and control or your radar system fails.
I'm not entirely sure, but I thought Phalanx still required search radar
from the ship? Goalkeeper is entirely self contained (but CAN take
search
info from the ship as well)
 
> GK is vastly better than Vulcan-Phalanx. There have been tests where
GK shot
> down 9/10 incoming missiles, vs the Phalanx's 0/10. But a Phalanx can
be

Yes. Makes for impressive video, as well ;)

> bolted on to a deck, it just needs power supplied. GK mounts weigh the
> same as a 76mm OTO mount - 15 tonnes - and require a deck penetration.
> ie you can easily add a VP to a ship, but adding a GK requires major
> re-construction.

Actually, look up HMS Zuiderkruis - A dutch auxiliary ship sent to the
gulf, with a containerized GK system on board.

> 
> So call a Vulcan a single PDS, and a GK 5x KraVak Scatterguns in a
block.
> (Whew, thought I'd never get this back on topic...)

THANK YOU! I was getting worried as well ;)

Cheers,

  Derk
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