RE: DS2/SG2 harmonization

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
[mailto:owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU]On Behalf Of Thomas Barclay
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:06 PM
To: gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: DS2/SG2 harmonization

In an effort to harmonize my DS2 and SG2 
games, I'm working out a TO&E that works well 
in both. Consequently, I've also had some other 
thoughts about DS2, to which some list members 
might have a response. 

Has anyone experimented with modifying 
infantry fire to be more unit quality oriented (a la 
SG2). I realize whether you get effective fire or 
not is a leadership and unit quality effect. But in 
SG2, fire ranges are determined from unit 
quality (and weapon to some limited extent). A 
green unit in SG2 is effective out to about 240m 
and an elite out to about 600m. In DS2, this all 
boils down to either 400m with normal rifles or 
600m with advanced combat rifles. Anyone tried 
factoring unit quality into range determination for 
infantry?

[Bri] You could try to go to a quality based system for infantry. Ranges
would be:	   Range Bands
Quality   1   2   3   4   5    
Elite	  1"  2"  4"  5"  6"
Veteran   1"  2"  3"  4"  5"
Regular   1"  2"  -   3"  4"
Green	  1"  -   2"  -   3"
Untrained -   1"  -   2"  -
Simple rounding converting SG2 ground scale (10m/inch) to DS2 ground
scale (100m/inch). '-' indicates no change from previous range band.
Note that this is much shorter than the standard DS2 ranges. I am unsure
how you would change chit pull or validity for the different range
bands. Or to make it simple, use Range Band 5:
Quality      Range   
Elite	      6"
Veteran       5"
Regular       4"
Green	      3"
Untrained     2" 
Of course you would then need to adjust the SG2 ranges for vehicles (RB
= Range Band):
Weapon	       RB vs Point Targets     RB vs Dispersed Targets
HEL		  120"			     70"
RFAC/1		   32"			     24"
RFAC/2		   48"			     36"
HVC/3		   64"			     48"
HVC/4		   72"			     54"
HVC/5		   80"			     60"
HKP/3		   84"			      -
HKP/4		   96"			      -
HKP/5		  108"			      -
MDC/1		   48"			     32"
MDC/2		   72"			     48"
MDC/3		   96"			     72"
MDC/4		  108"			     84"
MDC/5		  120"			     96"
DFFG/1		   24"			     16"
DFFG/2		   36"			     24"
DFFG/3		   48"			     32"
DFFG/4		   60"			     40"
DFFG/5		   72"			     48"
SLAM/3-5	   72"			     24"
ASPW		    -			     24"
IVAR		    8"		       Small Arms Quality
GMS/P		Max Range: 240"
GMS/L		Max Range: 360"
GMS/H		Max Range: 480"

Also, another thought: GMS/P. I've seen some 
rules on it that (I think) said something to the 
effect that cost was 10/15/20, range was 18" 
(unofficial of course), and it drew one chit. Is 
one chit an effective attack in DS2? In SG2, it 
rolls d12 (doubling if a major hit is scored). A 
GMS/L rolls 2d12 (doubling if a major hit is 
scored). So there is some argument to suggest 
a GMS/P might realistically draw 2 chits. 
Something tells me the difference between one 
chit and two in efficacy is startling.	Comments?

[Bri] I would think a range of 24" but only have 1d12 (double on major
hit). A GMS/P must be lighter (less powerful) than a GMS/L. So I would
make it draw 1 chit in DS2, using standard GMS chit validity. This makes
the GMS/P longer range than an IVAR, but slightly weaker. It is a
SUPPORT weapon, not a major anti-armor weapon. If you want more
anti-armor, use a heavy weapons team.

[Bri] PDS, for vehicles, needs to be added to SG2. When a vehicle
attacked by a guided missile (GMS), if it has PDS, it gets to roll an
additional die based on the quality of the PDS. EW may spoof either ECM
or PDS, but not both with the same EW marker.

Has anyone done any kind of rules to handle 
anything like a command transfer? (Hence 
making a platoon command infantry stand 
somewhat akin to as valuable as it is in SG).

[Bri] DS2 is much more deadly than SG2. Adding command activation would
change the flavor of the game. It would also be very unbalancing unless
it was VERY costly.

Anyone done EW rules? (So I can get some 
use out of having an EW soldier in my 
command stand)

[Bri] Without command activation, the only reason to have EW would be to
stop calls for artillery. I would think that it would be fairly easy to
add EW for this purpose.

And anyone have any idea how to handle PA 
with things like point fire railguns? Or, if we 
assume that PA stands are (int he normal game) 
presumed to include such monster anti-armour 
weapons, how do we handle PA stands that don't 
have such firepower? (my answer would be as 
normal infantry with advanced rifles). 

[Bri] PA are assumed to be equipped with the equivalent of IVARs. If you
want to make them stronger against armor, use the Heavy Weapons squad
rules (i.e. give the PA a class-1 weapon [or GMS/L] but make them have
only close range [close assault] weapons for other attacks). You could
probably argue that PA could act as both a Heavy Weapons team and as
normal PA; if your group agrees, do that.

It is also interesting to note how fast PA is. In 
SG2, its about 2 x as fast as infantry. In DS2, its 
3 x as fast. Yikes. I guess this reflects the fact 
the speed is being provided by the armour and 
the troopie probably isn't doing all that much 
work so he can maintain his high speed for far 
longer than a foot infantryman, thus giving a 
much greater large-scale movement rate. 

[Bri] What is even more interesting is how SLOW vehicles are in SG2.

Anyone thought about how to handle a sniper 
stand in DS2? 

[Bri] Use a face down counter and several dummy counters? Treat as an
ASPW attack on a unit. Once the sniper moves, the counter is revealed
(or if a unit comes within 2" of it)? Once revealed, the sniper team
acts as a Line Infantry team.

Anyway, those are my musings/questions for 
now. 
-----End Original Message-----

My comments above marked by [Bri]

---
Brian Bell
bbell1@insight.rr.com
ICQ: 12848051
AIM: Rlyehable
The Full Thrust Ship Registry:
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