Re: [FT] Comments on Glenn's aliens

On Sun, 01 Apr 2001 11:54:39 +1000 Beth Fulton
<beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au> writes:
>G'day Glenn,
>

Hello, Beth.

>I'm sure Oerjan will have more to say on the subject, but here's a few 
>
>thoughts I had.
>
> >I sat down with FT2 and sketched out the weaponry...
>
>Sorry I've never played FT before FB so can't comment there.
>

No biggie, I have moved to FB1 completely myself.

>NEKTONS
> >Alternate <Mass 20 FF>
> >Weak Hull 4 boxes
> >FTL
> >Drive 6
> >1 firecon
> >NBx3
> >PDS
>
>Can't remember the Needle Beam FC requirements off the top of my head, 
>but 
>I have a feeling this combo of Needles and FC is going to restrict you 
>to 
>potentially killing one system very dead....was this a redundancy 
>thing you 
>actually wanted to build in?
>

One NB, 1/6 chance of a firecon/drive kill, two is 1/3, three is 1/2 -
since I view escorts as tangling with escorts first (and one firecon is
the norm on human/etc. escorts) this ship is designed to 1) put the
enemy
escorts at the mercy of other Nekton "killer' ships and 2) make them
selves a threat outside their mass value to Cruisers and Capital ship
(Killing Firecons/engines) and	to draw fire away from larger Nekton
ships who would kill the 'bad guys' (Ralnai, Humans, Whistlers,
everybody
else) themselves.  Not exactly IF kamikaze but very similar in effect. 
This is the alternate FF, flys in formation with the 2xNB, one Class-2
ships as a 'systems killer' to set up a 'kill' by a cruiser or follow-up
DD flotilla.  The 'standard FF has two firecons so, in theory, they can
be using both the beam and the NB at different targets at eh same time. 
The 'alternate' is the Firecon/drive killer of the mixed FF flotilla (3
standard, 1 alternate).

> >This is a first cut, please let me
> >known if I made any math or rule
> >errors.
>
>Haven't got time to check your math unfortunately, but the idea 
>doesn't 
>seem to bad, though some of your BDNs and up may find it hard to 
>actually 
>get close enough to get decent to hit rolls. Do you play vector or 
>cinematic by the way?
>

So far, both games (yes only two - tied up with the local historical
group most game days) cinematic.  

Actually most fleet actions I plan to run (as opposed to play in someone
else's scenarios) will be 'small' - as in BB/BC (1, max 2) and Cruisers
and escorts.  The BDN/SDN/CV stuff was just an attempt at extrapolation.

But I sometimes don't worry about winning so much as playing 'the Alien'
and having fun trying. 

Besides, *Big* ships would take a lot of beads <grin>.	But that's for
another post...

Nekton BDN/SDN designs are still in the learning by doing stage.  Until
recently there were *no* Nekton ships bigger then HC in any numbers and
they had not been tested in reasonable amounts of combat.  The Nektons
had mainly been raiding Ralnai/Human shipping with LC and below
flotillas.  Then the Humans brought in The Whistler Merc infantry for an
unrelated campaign and they were ambushed by Nektons (who thought they
were some 'war supplies') and the 100% loss of the troops in the ships
resulted in a short war of retaliation between Whistlers and Nektons. 
It's not so much 'over' as 'on hold' right now.

In Historicals,  I also like to play armies with a tie to my mixed
heritage sometimes that are not Uber-troops - Napoleonic Spanish as an
example - and this is somewhat the same type of approach tied to SF
setting.  Charge of the Light Brigade type thing.

>WHISTLERS
> >"Mother Nest Ship"
> >200 Mass
> >Weak Hull 40 Boxes (Standard Hull version reported)
> >FTL
> >Drive 4
> >3 FCS
> >7 FTRs 3 Interceptor, 1 Fast, 1 Long Range, 2 Torp
> >ADFC
> >PDSx6
> >Level-1 screen
> >Armor 10
> >Class-1 x2
>
>Why 3FCs, is redundnacy a design feature you were actually after? I'd 
>be 
>tempted to drop it to one given the armament.
>

Lose one on an escort (remember those Nekton NB's) you can't fire at
all,
the idea of losing teh ability to defend yourself because you lost those
FCS has made the Whistlers a bit paranoid..  Whistlers fear being
'flying
meat' more then most.  But since I love NB's for the Nektons I probably
over-react on the Whistler's part.  The Whistlers tangle with the
Nektons
most often - their contact with human races is usually as mercenary
Light
Infantry and Air mobile/ Aircraft merc units.  Also, this was the first
Whistler ship I designed and I was using a mental 'template' of Capital
Ship (3 FCS) and may not have realized I only had two direct fire guns -
Whistler Carriers depend on Consorts, PDS's and most definitely
screening
fighters for protection.  A Whistler Designer would turn that extra FCS
into a PDS in  a heart beat.  Live by the sword (fighter), fear dying by
the Sword (Fighter) to paraphrase.  That and those slimy Nektons trying
to knock out firecons so they can slowly kill or board (Nektons use
sonic
weapons to scramble neural matter in man to man combat) for capture
enemy
ships.

> >BB
> >140 mass Standard Hull 52 boxes (Nest version reported)
> >FTL
> >Drive 4
> >SML 1
> >SML MAG 1 - 4 ER Salvoes
> >SML 2
> >SML MAG 2 - 4 standard salvoes
> >SML 3
> >SML MAG 3 - 4 ER salvoes
> >3 FCS
> >Class-2
>
>Firstly you're going to get good at judging placement with this ship 
>;)

Actually I hope to somebody else <grin> to play the Whistlers most of
the
time.  Whistler tactics aren't my personal cup of tea - i.e., I can't
seem to judge where to put missiles yet and 'NB and PT' are so much
easier [point ship, shoot.]

>Secondly, once again why so many FCs? Off the top of my head I can't 
>remember which are houserules and which standard rules, but as far as 
>I 
>recall you only need a functioning FC to fire all your SMLs (and 
>they're 
>still placed where you like).
>

Paranoia about losing those FCS to damage.  The Whistlers 'really,
really
like' missiles...  And they really really hate losing to the Nektons. 
Lots of missiles make the 'close, point and kill' Nekton weapons systems
more costly to use, especially during closure...  I also did not realize
that one FCS could direct multiple SML's - don't know why I didn't
since,
upon re-reading the SML section in FB1 it seems pretty clear one would
do...  Duh on me for not catching that on the fi
rst read through.

> >BDN
> >Standard Hull 48 boxes
> >FTL Drive 4
> >2 FTR Bays (outfitted per mission from planet bases)
> >SML's 1 thru 3
> >SML MAG's 1 thru 3 - 3 standard salvoes each
> >2x PT
> >Class-1
>
>OK this one doesn't have an FC at all.... ;)

Oooops, bet I left it out when I typed.  Better check my notes.  No, I
just forgot to include it!  Drop the one PT I guess, and add three FCS
(one for beams, one for PT, and one for SML's) plus a couple class-1's.

>
> >CVH
> >Mass 180
> >Weak Hull 54 boxes
> >FTL
> >Drive 4
> >10 FTR/Bays (3 Interceptors, 3 Torp, 1 Long range, 1 fast, ! heavy, 
>1
> >Standard)
> >PDSx8
> >3 FCS
> >2x Class-2
> >Class-1
>
>Once again 3 FC may be a little much.
>

Point taken.  <grin>  How about the Class-2's don't overlap??  Or drop
the Class-1, make it 2 FCS and add a third Class-2???

>MERTUNS
>
>You may want to add an extra FC to some of the little guys 
>(particularly 
>the DH and FF), otherwise you may find their lack of flexibility too 
>constraining.....from one extreme to the other ;)
>

That's the Mertuns.  Thinking with a base eight counting system and
being
extremely unbalanced in their technology - some very high by human
standards and some very low -  they are impressed (no, obsessed) with
volume of fire for most applications.  Similar to American approach of
'body count' in Vietnam.  " We killed a bunch of them we must be
winning."

The DH could use a second FCS  by dropping a PDS (4 is still agood
number
of PDS's).

> >SDN
> >Mass 180
> >Average Hull 54 boxes
> >Armor 18
> >FTL
> >Drive 2
> >*5* FCS
> >PDSx9
> >Class-4, 5 arcs
> >3x Class-3, 5 arcs
> >2x Class-3, 3 arcs (side - angled to overlap in fore)
>
>OK why 5 FCS on this one? I thought I had the system worked out until 
>this 
>one popped up ;)
>

One [3, 3 arc] to the left secondary target, [one 3, 3 arc to] the right
secondary target, two for the main [3, 5 arcs]	targets, one for the
Class-4.    Strictly an experiment by the Mertuns.  They shied away from
adding "only" two 2 Class-1's or a 'single' class-2... very number
oriented.  It was considered to add PDS but it already had 9 (more then
adequate even to Mertun minds...)  

Mertuns might not exist completely in our reality according to some
human
Xenobiologists.  The Mertun word for FTL can be translated as "...home
away from home..." but most Xenobiologists think this is a (rare) Mertun
use of humor and/or metaphor.  

Some things they have done in the past seem completely illogical and yet
they are considered, in general, an emotionless race depending on
'logic'
to make decisions.  They have popped into a piece of space, counted
ships
and surrendered on terms that allow the ships/beings to be 'paroled'
(and
they never break their word apparently) until the 'war' is over. 
Mertuns
never intentionally commit suicide or charge into what appears to be
sure
defeat.  Ther is no shame to fleeing or surrendering if they can't flee
overwhelming odds.  Lie to them once and they will *never* have
diplomatic contact ever again with a race.  Fortunately they recognize
that Human 'nations' are not all the same group despite the biological
'facts' saying they are one species and (in Mertun terms) 'should' be. 
They have no fear of making 'risky' jumps saying that ships that
disappear in hyperspace were 'transferred' not lost.

> >Starfish
> >Strong Hull 58 boxes
> >Armor 14
> >FTL
> >Drive 2
> >3 FCS
> >Screen-1
> >4x Class-3, 3 Arcs
> >PT, 3 arcs
> >PDSx4
>
>Flavour wise why introduce the PT here? Was it a "stolen" weapon or 
>something? Just curious.
>

>From the name (starfish,) it's for cracking open those 'hard shelled'
(i.e., Screen-2) targets - most likely to be other capital ships. There
was this skirmish between a trio of  Mertun raiding flotillas (DD lead
FF's and Corvettes)  and a human Screen-2 equipped BC...  The Mertuns
were particularly unlucky with their beam weapons whilee the humans
combination of beams and PT's on those weak hulled FF/CT...

>KLACKONS
>
> >DD
> >35 mass
> >Strong Hull 14 boxes
> >FTL
> >Drive 6
> >*2* FCS.....
>
>I think your missing something here ;)
>

Like a weapon?	Back to my notes.

Try 2x Class-2, 3 Arcs (overlap in the fore) and PDSx4.

> >HC
> >84 mass
> >Strong Hull 34 boxes
> >Armor 6
> >Drive 6
> >3 FCS
> >2x Class-3, 5 arcs
> >PDSx4
>
>OK once again a bit heavy on the FCs. Unless redundancy is something 
>these 
>aliens are obsessed with I think they would've figured out the 
>cost-benefit 
>basis of FC:weapon allocation. I know you were trying to make them 
>feel 
>"non-human", but there are   some things that will have a universal 
>logic 
>(at least in my opinion).
>

You know, that may be a mistake in my notes, although, IIRC Klackons see
HC as Capital ships, so maybe it was originally with one more gun?? 
Better take a look there too.  Yeah, that's the problem, when I decided
to use the class-3's  it should have been 2 FCS and the left over point
used as a class-1, a added PDS or more armor..

> >BC and up
>
>Once again I reckon they've got to many FCs < I bet you're sick of me 
>saying that by now ;) >
>
>The ideas seem OK, just a bit of tweaking to do I reckon.
>
>Cheers
>
>Beth
>

Muchas Gracias on the feedback.  I chose *more* FCS on some ships for
one
race but it seems to 'bled over' into the others more then I intended. 
It might make more sense if I posted the 'stacked dice' geography of the
part of the universe(s) I used to make my game environment...  I'll post
that later.

Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious (American Mongrel)
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines! (Die, Ralnai, Die!)
Starguard, Dirtside 2,	Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar Conflicts
and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd.  Resistance is everything!

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.