Re: Tin Cans versus Dreadnoughts

On Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:56:56 -0500 "stranger" <stranger@cvn.net> writes:
<snip>
>
>This is an interesting topic considering the History Channel was 
>running a
>series called "Battleships" all week.	It got me to thinking about the 
>ways
>different games model the "naval" battles in space.  It also got me to
>thinking about why all those different types of ship classes really 
>exist in
>the first place.  This got me thinking about how it all fits together 
>in FT,
>and well, its kinda a snowball effect from there...anyways.....
>

Again, to harp on, the basis assumption I make (but don't agree is the
most likely to be the future 'reality') is that this is a naval model.

>For the first part, I think the FT game, and even the "official" 
>history
>model well the BB vs. CV issue.  Its my opinion that each has its 
>place, and
>that the BIG superships would rules the "skies".  I tend to the of the 
>CV in
>pretty much the same way as a BB, except that her weapons are really 
>just a
>bunch of little ships.
>

Agreed even if the fighters (in terms of cost, equipping, manpower and
training) are *way* too cheap, IMO.

>For the second part, the reason for all the little ships to exist.  
>One
>reason is deployment and economy.  Its just impossible to build enough
>battleships to put ships everywhere you need a presence.  Another 
>reason to
>have those little ships, is so that they can protect the big ships 
>from
>things like fighters, missiles, and all those little ships carrying 
>that one
>cheap weapon that can sink your BB.  (In WWI and WWII it was the 
>torpedo,
>nowadays its missiles). In FT, as someone just mentioned in the last 
>day or
>two, a small ship armed with needle-beams can render a supership 
>useless
>just by taking out the Firecons.  Instead of wasting space on the Big 
>ship
>for lots of PDS systems, make small ships with area defense systems 
>and PDS
>systems to keep missiles and fighters off (thus more room for big guns 
>on
>the big ship) and also use the small ships to keep the small needle 
>armed
>ships away.
>

Two quite excellent items.  Your analysis is quite astute.  I think a
game where there is an imbalance towards only heavy ships is
'unrealistic' in games terms (See, Brian, I am using the term in 'game'
parameters because I agree that in 'real world' terms we have no idea
how
the 'real' battles, IF they ever *could* occur, would play out.  I agree
with you about realism in far future space battles being a conceit we
use
to make a good game.)

>An earlier discussion said the big ships in FT are truly the queen of
>battle, and they are, and should be, but only as long as they have the
>escorts to keep those needle armed raiders off!
>

And this justifies building and using the escorts/cruisers to keep the
enemy honest.  It doesn't matter so much if you lose a flotilla or two
of
LC/DDH's to send his BC/BB/etc. to the shipyards far away for a year...

>In my mind, those are two good reasons for the existence of small 
>ships in
>any FT fleet, even though the economics/deployment issue is really a 
>matter
>of scenario.  IN a campaign game, I truly believe there would be lots 
>of
>smaller ships in battle.
>

Sure, a 'patrol' SDN???

>An interesting thing to note in both WWI and WWII is that Navies were 
>loath
>to risk their dreadnoughts.  The darn things were so powerful and 
>expensive
>that to lose one meant a major shift in the balance of power.	Another
>reason for all the little ships.  You have to have something to 
>actually
>fight with!
>

Suer, imagine a campaign where you only had one flotilla of BDN/SDN to
start with - every loss without a *proportionately* great loss to your
foe(s) would be eventually defeating.

>Anyways, just some random thought on the subject...
>
>George
>
Nice analysis , George!

Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious (American Mongrel)
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines! (Die, Ralnai, Die!)
Starguard, Dirtside 2,	Ratner's Space Marines, Stellar Conflicts
and Uprisings, and Full Thrust/2nd.  Resistance is everything!

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