Re: strike the colors rule

Regarding striking colors, scuttling, and other such stuff, here's the
WW1
event that I mentioned previously.

To quote "Cruisers: An Illustrated History" by Anthony Preston:

Battle of Jutland-31 May 1916

"The German cruisers were quickly punished when Hood's battlecruisers
came
storming out of the mist.  The 'Wiesbaden' was shattered by 12-inch
shells
and came to a stop..."

Then

"The crippled 'Wiesbaden' lay between the opposing lines of ships and
she
was fired on in turn by the British ships as they passed.  The destroyer
'Onslow', for example, fired 58 shells into her while the 3rd Light
Cruiser
Squadron poured 6-inch shells into her as they passed, but still she
refused
to surrender and her guns fired intermittently.  Then...1st Cruiser
Squadron
came into view, crossing the bows of the 'Lion' in its haste to get at
'Wiesbaden'.  Once again the treacherous visibility allowed ships to get
surprisingly close and while 'Defence', 'Warrior', and 'Black Prince'
were
briskly pouring salvoes of 9.2-inch shells into the blazing hulk, they
were
surprised by the German battlecruisers..."

Finally

"But before night fell the indomitable 'Wiesbaden' scored a final
success by
torpedoing the British dreadnought 'Marlborough' in the engine-room.  As
the
'Wiesbaden' sank with all hands later that night, we will never know
what
heroism it took to get that torpedo tube trained and fired."

The 'Wiesbaden' was a LIGHT CRUISER!

Enough about WW1.

I still think that additional morale rules (at least for Navy vessels)
really have no place in FT scenario games.  What do I base this
supposition
on?  Well, WW1, WW2, and modern examples show that surrender should be
VERY
rare (barring unusual circumstances).  Running away generally occurred
with
a force commander's permission (or, more frequently, when ORDERED to by
the
force commander).  Furthermore, when surrender or scuttling did occur,
it
was generally after a vessel was (for all intents and purposes)
completely
out of action anyway-such as what happens when a Full Thrust starship
loses
all of its Hull or weapons.   Please note that I say "generally" in the
previous sentence and not "always."  I guess I'm just saying that well
written or game-mastered victory conditions should force the proper
amount
of "skittishness" in one-of games while the strategic situation should
control it in campaign games.

For those that still want morale rules, I would suggest ones that depend
upon the last row of Hull boxes rather than ones that would be triggered
more often or more easily.  I personally like the following (for
tournament
battles and other non-scenario-type battles):

When a ship suffers the loss of its 3rd row of hull boxes, make a system
check (per normal Core System chances) against Crew Morale.  If the crew
fails the check, the vessel will attempt to leave the battlefield (and
then
enter hyperspace, if capable).	If the ship's drives are out, the crew
will
set scuttling charges and abandon ship.  Please note that the above is
only
for Navy ships (or the equivalent) when facing foes of the same race.

For civilian ships, I think morale rules make a lot of sense.  Maybe the
following:  upon challenge by warship, roll 1d6.  A modified roll of 4
or
less means that the civilian ship will attempt to do whatever its (the
civilian vessel's) owner wants.  A modified roll of 5 will mean that the
civilian ship will shut down its drives and coast, unless that means it
will
run into an asteroid or the like-in which case it will deviate from its
flight plan the minimum required to avoid destruction.	A modified roll
of 6
or better will mean the civilian will follow the challenging ship's
orders.
This roll is modified by the following:

-1 if the civilian ship is armed
-1 if civilian ship has more thrust than known capability of closest
enemy
warship
-1 for each friendly (to the civilian ship) warship (or fighter
squadron)
within 12 mu
+1 for each enemy ship (or fighter squadron) within 12 mu
+1 if enemy warship is closer to civilian ship than any friendly
warships
+1 for each hull row destroyed on the civilian ship
+/- 1 or 2 depending upon "mission" motivation

I think the above modifiers take into account many of the items that a
merchant captain would have to consider when making the decision.  Any
thoughts?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert W. Eldridge" <bob_eldridge@mindspring.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: strike the colors rule

> That would be SMS Wiesbaden.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Bell" <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
> To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:49 PM
> Subject: Re: strike the colors rule
>
>
> >
> >
> > "Robert W. Hofrichter" wrote:
> >
> > > Continuing this a little further--an extreme example:
> > >
> > > A German cruiser during Jutland (can't remember the name) was
basically
> > > knocked out of action (severely reduced speed, most weapons not
> functioning)
> > > but even though it was passed (and shot at) by just about every
Brit
> ship,
> > > it continued to fire when it could--and even ended up sinking a
Brit
> vessel
> > > via torpedo--until it finally sank the next day.	Or something
like
> > > that--read about the incident in a 1980 book called "Cruisers."
> > >
> > > Either a perfect example of a vessel making all its morale rolls
or a
> good
> > > example of why not to use morale rules for "modern naval" combat. 
I
> prefer
> > > the latter (and to write victory conditions that force players to
behave
> > > wisely with regards to losses).
> >