Re: [FT] SML-AF Was Re: More weapon...
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@p...>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:00:22 -0800
Subject: Re: [FT] SML-AF Was Re: More weapon...
Hi Richard,
[Excellent SML stuff snipped]
Give me a little bit to run the numbers on this, but thus far I like
it alot. My only change might be to give it a range of 12 MU instead
of 6.
Overall, good work.
Schoon
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Iain Banks' Culture in FT (was Ship Names )
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:01:19 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
Message-ID: <18d54t8slpsfam2r112aokf1flu71q3dr4@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:57:49 -0800 (PST), Michael Llaneza
<imperialdispatches@yahoo.com> wrote:
>30 seconds later....
>
>http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=542970&lastnode_id=14952
Unfortunately no one on that site has accumulated the Idiran ship names.
I
always loved "The Hand of God 137".
Out of curiousity, has anyone attempted a conversion of Banks' Culture,
et al
ships to FT? I'd love to see that done. I'd do it myself, but I've got
too
many irons in the fire as it is, and it's been too long since I read any
of
the books.
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex
toys into a living room full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References:
<006c01c06acd$1a8d9460$a1b1893e@auser><006c01c06acd$1a8d9460$a1b1893e@au
ser><3.0.3.32.20001220224355.006a7af4@popmail.voicenet.com><3A42098D.7CD
95C18@stsci.edu> <4.2.2.20001222100438.00a3c500@pop.hba.marine.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: Ship Names (was Re: RE-Ship types names)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:00:24 -0800
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> >Wombat of Retribution, Potto of Destiny etc?
>
> Bandicoot of Retribution.... ;)
>
> Beth
Nope, definitely Wombat
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Subject: Re: [FT] Rules you use, rules you ignore
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:17:37 -0600
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Hi,Folks,
We usually ignore the arc restriction. It seems silly to me in the new
system.
We never use the turkey or ace rules.
We usually use Cinematic, in some backgrounds like B5, we use vector.
While we don't fight to the last ship, we call it when one or the other
side
is at 50% losses or time runs out unless the game calls for a last
stand.
"Battle of the Line" Type stuff.
I never use needle beams or MT torpedoes, Though I thought of use them
as
replacement for Nova Cannons.
Standard Sensors, granted I am only using a 5' x 6' table, so thus well
in
lock-on.
As in SFB "my preferred form of electronic warfare is a phaser-1."
Rick Norman.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robertson, Brendan <Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: [FT] Rules you use, rules you ignore
> I use the current version of most of the rules.
> No aft arc firing if any thrust used at all.
> Occassional use of Ace/Turkey; either +6 per ace or 1; ace, 2-4;
normal,
> 5-6; turkey.
> Usually Cinematic, but occasional vector game.
> Sensors usually for PBeM (requires GM to use properly).
>
> I don't usually use striking the flag; but fleet morale usually
applies.
>
> Neath Southern Skies -http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
> [Pirates] Dame Captain Washalot
> [MKW2] Admiral Peter Rollins - Task Force Zulu-Beta
> [Firestorm] Battletech PBeM GM
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Mancini [SMTP:peter_mancini@msn.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 4:12 AM
> >
> > What are the experiences most people have with the Full Thrust
rules?
Do
> > you find you use 100% of the rules or not?
> >
> > How many use the Aft Arc fire only on turns with no main drive
thrust
> > rule?
> > How many use Aces and Turkys for fighters? How many even care to
use
some
> >
> > of the fluff-hinted at rules such as time to change conditions (or
do
all
> > battles start with all crew at Red Alert?)
> >
> > Since there are so many optional rules, how many use Vector vs.
Cinematic?
> >
> > How many use any of the sensor rules?
>
_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
From - Fri Dec 22 22:00:42 2000
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From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
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<p04320403b66835efbbf5@[63.201.228.144]>
Subject: Re: System Thrust was Re: Rules you use...
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:20:24 -0800
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> At that assumed scale, the orbital radii would be:
> Mercury 5.8"
> Venus 10.8"
> Earth 15"
> Mars 22.8"
> Jupiter 77.8" (which would be off our map)
Assuming you started at the sun. If your terraform planet is on the
other side of the sun from your jovian...well, put them in the corners
and you've got about 86 inches space. Or measure in cm. Or start
with an M star, which is obviously a better place to live anyway...
:-)
>
> Time scale. This is where things get tricky. To keep movement, etc.
> in the same units we'd have to up the time scale by 10^4 as well.
> Using the assumed FT turn of 15 min. (900 sec. rounded up to 1000
> just to make things easier) would give a turn length of 10^7 sec.,
or
> approximately 100 days per turn. BORING.
Remember that d = 1/2 at^2, so (without working it out to verify) you
should be able to use 10^2 FT turns or about 1 day (25 hours).
> If we assume that ships can use micro-jumps within the inner system,
Yuck! Obviously your telepathy was off on this one, Schoon, usually
you read my mind better than that. Let's dispense with in-system
jumps unless we can't get anything playable without it.
From - Fri Dec 22 22:00:43 2000
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From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <20001222005749.1767.qmail@web1405.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Names (was Re: RE-Ship types names)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:33:38 -0800
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> http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=542970&lastnode_id=14952
>
Clearly I need to read these books, and start applying ship names to
AE units.
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:36:22 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: System Thrust was Re: Rules you use...
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<003a01c06bc6$20d069c0$5dee1a3f@pavilion>
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>The formula for constant linear acceleration is d = 1/2 at^2 (d =
>distance, a = acceleration, t = time)
Ah, that's why I was confused; my sleep addled brain couldn't figure
out the d (I'm used to seeing "x") and didn't realize what was
formula and what was more text. I get it.
>The problem is that, if you accelerate for 2 days, you should move
>4MU, not 2.
True, but as there's no really good way to model this AND keep it
simple, I'd rather have ships move their thrust rating each turn. I'm
willing to sacrifice a little bit of reality if the end result is
FUN. (Kinda like Cinematic movement)
Schoon
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From: "Robertson, Brendan" <Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [FT] SML-AF Was Re: More weapon...
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:08:20 +1100
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I prefer a simpler method.
Each SML-AF salvo (mass 2) simply gives you 6 PDS die to allocate as
normal
(within arc) with ADFC capabilities / range. Makes it easier to
calculate.
Neath Southern Skies -http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
[Pirates] Dame Captain Washalot
[MKW2] Admiral Peter Rollins - Task Force Zulu-Beta
[Firestorm] Battletech PBeM GM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Bell [SMTP:rlbell@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 PM
>
> Game Stats:
>
> The AF salvo has a mass of one and can engage any target in the arc of
the
> launcher. It has a range of only six mu, but is placed on the board
AFTER
> ships have moved. It can be fired on in the point defence phase, but
if
> targeted on a plasma burst, it is resolved first [do phalons escort
plasma
> bursts?]. Each undestroyed missile will destroy a fighter or salvo
> missile on
> a 4, 5, or 6 (heavy fighters and PB's ignore 4's, and AF missiles may
not
> fire
> on each other) on a d6, or automatically hit the target ship for one
point
> of
> damage.
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Subject: Re: RE-Ship types names)
Message-ID: <20001222.220813.9543.0.triphibious@juno.com>
References: <006c01c06acd$1a8d9460$a1b1893e@auser>
<4.2.2.20001222113217.00a405e0@pop.hba.marine.csiro.au>
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On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:34:22 +1100 Beth Fulton
<beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au> writes:
<snip>
>Actually I was thinking of an old story my Granddad used to tell and
>in my
>C++ induced haze sorta forgot the rest of you wouldn't know...all this
>
>Christmas cheer must really be going to my head... I'd better go lie
>down ;)
>
>Beth
>
Careful, that stuff can rot your brain. 8^)
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
You don't have to be French to be a 'frog', or even human!
Nektons - Real Marines!
Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines,
Stellar Conflicts and Uprisings. Resistance is everything!
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From: Allan Goodall <awg@sympatico.ca>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Ship Names (was Re: RE-Ship types names)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:16:23 -0500
Organization: Haphazard at best.
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On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 01:43:30 -0000, "Robin Paul" <Robin.Paul@tesco.net>
wrote:
>My Scots use all sorts, including names from James IV's navy in the
16th
>Century, e.g. Ly-by-the-fire, Klinkbellis; Unicorn and Salamander
(CVAs) KJ4
>himself is a BC, William Wallace and John Maclean SDNs and the Great
Micheal
>is an extra large SDN. Admiral Greig, Admiral Cochrane, and John Paul
Jones
>are old ex-ESU BBs (Revell Maquis fighter minikits)
Another naming convention I've used is to use US and British name types
with
Canadian references. I had a set of "Battle class" ships named Vimy
Ridge,
Dieppe, Falaise, and... geez, can't remember the Italian place name!
*Smack*
I've used Canadian place names, geographic locations, and people. The
Sir
Wilfrid Laurier, the Sir John A. McDonald, the Pierre Elliott Trudeau,
and a
revenue cutter I called the Brian Mulroney (inside joke for Canadians
there...). Funny, the Mulroney rarely survived even when it wasn't a
factor in
the scenario. *S*
Allan Goodall awg@sympatico.ca
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.vex.net/~agoodall
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex
toys into a living room full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:30:12 -0700
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Michael Llaneza <maserati@flash.net>
Subject: Re: FT-Anime designs in FT
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At 9:15 PM -0600 12/18/00, devans@uneb.edu wrote:
>
>The slight problem I have is, even if you think of the mecha as a super
>boarding party, it's only in one place, not the thing for disabling the
>ship single-handed, unless they're Borg-like in the ability to hook
into
>the ship.
Waldos, data probes, and a quantum computer for password cracking
don't add all that much mass to the mech. Of course, they do cost a
pretty penny.
>Though, given my bias towards a heavy penalty the 'jack-of-all-trades'
pays
>in inefficiency, I'd assume poorer performance in any role. Poor
fighter,
>weighed down by the extra mechanical equipment for transformation; poor
>in-ship knife-fighter, lumbering awkwardly down tight-fit ship's
corridor.
The two common assumptions in both Macross and Gundam are highly
maneuverable space fighters with very advanced control systems.
There's a lot of handwavium in the explanation, but the results are
on the screen. I've been doing a little postulating about a mix of
'regular' space fighters and mecha. So far, I think that standard
units need to be in the mix, or the more advanced units don't stand
out as special.
As far as game effects go, I don't think the FT rules need to be very
heavily modified to accomidate mechs. And if you want big, scary
mechs we'll just have to tinker with the ship rules.
Now I'll just need a few minutes to write up the Valkyrie from
Macross for Lightning Strike...
--
Michael Carter Llaneza
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1991-1950
Devolution is very real to me.
Whenever I hear the "Odd Couple" theme, I get this image of Dennis
Rodman borrowing Marge Schott's toothbrush.
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:01:21 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: [FT] SML-AF Was Re: More weapon...
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>I prefer a simpler method.
>Each SML-AF salvo (mass 2) simply gives you 6 PDS die to allocate as
normal
>(within arc) with ADFC capabilities / range. Makes it easier to
calculate.
The method is sound, but the ADFC restriction on the range is a bit
much. How about my "firing" method along with your damage (I was
concerned that my way was too many dice rolls)?
Schoon
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From: "Owen Glover" <oglover@bigpond.net.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: GeoHex Page?.. OA
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:05:05 +1100
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Well, looks ok as of right now.....
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> [mailto:owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Reindl
> Sent: Friday, 22 December 2000 10:15 AM
> To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: GeoHex Page?.. OA
>
>
> My guess is that they got hacked. Bummer......
>
> chubbybob wrote:
>
> > nope.. right now that url leads to a microsft NT4 option pack..
> wierd eh???
> >
> > Bob DeAngelis
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sean Bayan Schoonmaker" <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
> > To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
> > Sent: Friday 22 de December de 2000 00:45
> > Subject: GeoHex Page?
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Can anyone else access the GeoHex page at the moment. I get some
sort
> > > of Microsoft page when I try to access: http://www.geohex.com/
> > >
> > > Schoon
>
>
From - Fri Dec 22 22:00:48 2000
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Cc: patconnaughton@earthlink.net
Subject: First game of FT
Message-ID: <20001222.230258.9543.1.triphibious@juno.com>
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From: Glenn M Wilson <triphibious@juno.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:07:19 EST
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Well, I had a first game of FT (plus lots of stuff from the later books
that I did not quite understand - SR/ER missiles, class 1 - 4 beams
[replaces A, B, C ?], armor IIRC) - but since I have been war gaming
since 1959 'new' is just another wall to bump into until you bleed or
find a corner to go around...
Actually it was fun although there were some speed bumps.
US:
Me, with two cruisers (one packing a class 4 beam and the other pretty
standard to my unsophisticated eyes) but I like the non-capital ship
stuff [all those games of SPI's CA I guess.]
A older elementary age(?) kid who stayed fairly focused - I allotted him
a BB, A CE, and two DD.
A ditto who did not stay focused and I failed to monitor his play in my
greenness - on turn four he was writing turn seven orders and he may
have
failed to move on turn three entirely - with a BC, a CE or maybe two,
and
a DD IIRC.
a Kravak 'mercenary ally screen' with one big un', a middling one and
two
8 point 'discards' who had designed his ships under 'the old rules'
whatever that meant. The GM Pat (who I am sending a Cc:) did a on the
fly conversion of his stuff in play.
The enemy - two experienced players with who seemed to have MANY ships
but maybe only one more capital ship - lots of escort looking stuff.
Our mission = escort the BB/BC off the board to a major fleet
rendezvous.
All ships counting towards victory. Theirs, I assume, was to prevent
same.
Kravak were on board on right flank and crossing to the front at about a
45 degree. We entered from off board at half speed (3) with the one
kid busy with his fantasy by play rolling already (lots of SFB style
comments and SFRP type commentary but hey he was young for his age IMO)
at the left side of the board, I was linking him and the other kid on my
right.
The 'enemy' entered on our left and sent one ship angling off to our
right. The kids' paranoia went up significantly. I figured it was
either a 'dutch fire ship kamikaze' or a feint and let the Kravak hit it
in passing. I decided this was a 'race for life' and ranged my
acceleration from 3 to 5 (my max) every turn while trying to cover the
right side force (covering the left side was 'suicidal' IMO and he was
not listening to my advice so after two turns I worried about getting
SOMETHING off the board.) I advised the kids to use their max
acceleration (also 5 for all our ships) as much as possible.
Turn next to exit we lost the game. the Left hand force was decimated
completely and then some. Turn prior we had run the gauntlet of some
missiles with the CE and BB ahead and on my right taking mega hits and I
getting some moderate damage in passing. The left side flotilla made
like the missile magnets they were [shudder.] Kravak had lost two tinys
and suffered moderately in the heavy and the Cruiser was hurting but
still handing out damage. The last turn we saw the BB/CE/ and IIRC both
DD's on the right buy it. It may have not been quite that bad but this
WAS the turn the BB and the BC both exploded into cosmic dust. At this
point there was no left flank force. I blew off he board at velocity 29
and accelerating another 5 for good measure I believe. Had we pulled
off
one of the DD's relatively intact we would have won a marginal victory.
As it was both sides celebrated "Pyrrus' birthday" and went home
chastened. I just hope they don't shoot the messenger when my two
cruisers show up alone at rendezvous.
The game was fun but my performance was only adequate. I totally
misjudged the incoming missiles and traveled too much in a straight line
(making it easier to hit me) and failed to get my left wing commander
focused - which may not have been possible but I could have tried harder
[nah, he was having too much ego satisfaction up until he began making
like Swiss cheese to listen to me.] I failed to keep my right wing
commander accelerating every turn at maximum. Also he should have used
the space to the front and right to maneuver away from the majority of
the enemy fleet but he WAS following my order to get off the board as
fast as possible literally. Too literally as he traveled IIRC in a
straight line from turn 2 or three on... But I was having enough
trouble
learning the game and using completely unknown weapons system as it was.
Also the movement (acceleration is carried over and applied the
following
turn?) was not quite as simple as it was explained in my mind.
Pat gives you the copy of the ships you destroy in the game and I got
'kill credit' for the Kravak damaged ship that was a delaying decoy on
the right flank - an Arnold class HD with capability to hurt you if you
let it close with you, which I instinctively chose not to let occur. So
I got a 'scalp' to take home and hang on the red pole in the village.
But we lost, more or less. Well more actually.
Splitting up the escorts may not have been good. After the fact,
perhaps
giving young mister focused the BB/BC/and a CE with Mister excitable a
DD/CE delaying force backed up by my 'linking' cruiser force and angling
right and forward would have worked better. But that's Monday Morning
Quarterbacking and it's always easier to come up with alternatives AFTER
the game, no?
Well, we'll see how we do next time.
Next time I think I will use the one kid's enthusiasm better and try and
have an adult acting as individual mentor if possible for both kids if
they show up. I don't mind the youth of the players I had on my team
but
I hope my experience in the future would let me pay more attention to
cultivating their skills and less to sheer 'duh' game mechanics. I
should have been less concerned with giving them closely equal forces
and
concentrated on equal roles...
Pat, do you monitor the gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu list? If so, maybe you
could give a GM's synopsis of the game.
Gracias, Glenn/Triphibious
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Starguard, Dirtside 2, Full Thrust, Ratner's Space Marines,
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From - Fri Dec 22 22:00:49 2000
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From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
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<20001222.230258.9543.1.triphibious@juno.com>
Subject: Re: First game of FT
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:24:20 -0600
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Yes,
I am a member of the 'list and I've got a work-up in
progress. I usually post the results of the scuffle to
my homepage with SSD's and a summary of the
game.
Then I usually let the 'list know and any interested
soul can check out the carnage.
Thanks for the recap, Nicely done.
I'll let you know when and where we have another game
Thanks
Pat Connaughton
e-mail - ptconn@earthlink.net
homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~ptconn
ICQ # 2535086
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not
how to reign"
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome