Re: Noble Armada

The subject has come up a couple of times, including the period after I
got
to play the game at a GenCon. Full details available in the archives.

I'd have to say that the boarding rules are more abstract than, say,
Traveller, about the level of the Star Fleet Battles separate module. I
don't have good enough memory of the boarding procedure for a feel for
how
they'd mesh with FTII, though I'm skeptical with a lot of fill work.

***
They're not all that big, averaging around DD-CL size in FT terms IIRC.
Some nice designs, and they'd do well for privateers, merchants and
similar
stuff.
***

That would be the basic rule set; think Silent Death: Next Millenium
plastic size and quality. The other boxed sets include larger, up to
roughly BD-SD size metal. I was disappointed with the quality on the set
I
picked up.

The_Beast

-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon

One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
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Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
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***
If a list member who's familiar with Starfire would make a commercial
announcement every now and again, some of us might have spent our
Christmas budget a little differently. <g>
***

I certainly salute Oerjan's good sense and tact in keeping OT
announcements
off-list! However, a small indiscretion once or twice a year would
probably
not be amiss, especially in the midst of comment on the system in
response
to another list member.

I promise not to feed him opportunities. ;->=

The_Beast

-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon

One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:29:36 -0800
From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker <s_schoon@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
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>You know, the latest edition of Starfire is out, 4th edition IIRC, and
>prominent among the text on the back of the box is (paraphrased)
>"reduced paperwork" and "easy to understand".	  Around US$49.

Check out the cool intro at their site as well!

http://starfiredesign.com/starfire/

Schoon
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Cc: rodney.c.fernald@siemenscom.com
Subject: Re: New Conversion of Babylon 5 for FT
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>Hm? Not sure if you mean 3-5 crew members or 3-5 crew stars on SSD
>here.

Since I specify the crew markers in the structure, I mean the later.  
Otherwise, what are we talking about, a 9mm pistol?

>I can name another well-known SF series (movies though, not TV) where
>the biggest capital ships are called "destroyers"... and at least one
>SF author who uses the terms "battleship" and "cruiser" to mean
>"short-ranged ship with endurance for a single battle only" and "ship
>with endurance for long-distance patrol cruises" respectively (which
>IIRC is closer to the original naval meanings of the words than today's
>usage is) :-/

Battleship and Cruiser are relatively modern terms, with Cruiser being
the 
older term.  Also, why would future navies be more likely to use
original 
terms than more contemporary terms?  (Unless of course the author didn't
do 
any homework on the subject!)

>The Minbari in the show - Delenn in particular - seem to be quite
>nervous about fighting the Shadows... but why would they be nervous, if
>the Shadows couldn't harm Minbari ships?

Well, first off, Delenn is not of the Warrior Caste.  Not to imply that
the 
religious cast is made up of cowards (several warrior caste cough loudly
in 
the background) but they aren't always the best people to turn to for 
military thought. (lots of "hear hear" from the warrior caste)

>The same problem as the Shadow beam weapon, but we've swapped roles <g>
>The problem is that real armour very rarely ablates at all :-(

It always abates in FT.  In my version it must take checks.  You can
punch 
holes in my armor and weaken it.  I could come up with a more complex
verson 
but I am concerned with game play.  It will take a few test games to try
it 
out and see what the effect is.  Hopefully this weekend I will have 
completed some skirmishes and will report.

>In the standard game the EMP MT missile and the Needle Beam clearly
>ignore armour. K-guns, P-torps and other missiles might - but the way
>you phrased the armour block rule - "They are meant to stop beam
>weapons, missiles, kinetic weapons and the like" - strongly suggests
>that you intend the armour blocks to give full protection against all
>the normal FB armour-piercers.

P-Torps should definitely only be affected marginally as well as the EMP
MT 
Missile and K-Guns.  I will write up a chart of armor effects on ALL
weapon 
types and post it.

>And, as the rules were written last I read them, you hadn't yet decided
>how often the armour would apply each turn :-/

That bit requires testing and thinking.  It will be figured out by just 
playing a few games and seeing what comes naturally.  I suspect it will 
reduce weapon on a per hit basis - but let's wait and see.

>See the comments about the Shadows vs Minbari above. In the show it
>seems that the Minbari EW capabilities aren't as effective against all
>enemies - so if you use screens to represent this effect, they'll
>probably need level-2 or -3 screens against humans, but against Shadows
>(who, according to Delenn, "never miss") their big war cruisers

Note comments about Delenn above ("Religious Tart!" "Down in Front!") 
Clearly they do miss, mostly White Stars but also Narns who are properly

motivated.  Shadows are tough, but even the fricking Minbari beat them
1000 
years ago so, I think they are tough like a biker gang on PCP but bleed
just 
like the rest of us when hit with enough force and not these magical 
invulnerable black spiders who cringe into nothing when Psi-geeks show
up.  
The real question is, at what point do I need to worry about this?  One 
could argue that most of the battles with the Shadows were really races
to 
Get the Hell out of Dodge.  So perhaps they don't have to be modeled
other 
than as scenario gimics (i.e. do such and such a task in X-turns or else
the 
Shadow Cruiser shows up and shaves and slivers your ship.)  Hmmm, nice 
alliteration...

>>Sort of like the transition for
>>the Assyrians from Chariots to Cavalry - they kept the Chariots around
>>for 300 years out of conservatism.
>
>More likely because it took them a century or two to figure out how to
>ride a horse and fight at the same time, instead of having every other
>rider refrain from fighting in order to hold the other man's horse :-/

Actually they spent that prior to adopting them in 900BC as a military
arm - 
but I am sure it took quite a few skirmishes before real tactics took
hold.  
Also note that during those 3 centuries you had to convince a lot of
nobels 
that inspite of the status the chariot gave them on the battlefield,
they 
were likely to get their asses handed to them in any engagement with 
Cavalry.  Note further that this in fact happened.  Also, the 'Chariot 
Runners' as they were still called served a useful purpose even when the

Cavalry fought from horseback.

This has been fun.  I can't wait to get my hands dirty playing with
these 
ideas.	I am glad there are so many people on the list willing to offer 
ideas and comments to help out.

As my friend comments about the Omegas, "Ram Speed Mr. Sulu!"
--Peter
"Ok, which of youse called First Minbari Delenn a 'Religious Tart'?"
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Subject: Re: New Conversion of Babylon 5 for FT
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>Actually, if you re-view some of the major battles of the multiple
races
>against the Shadows, you see Minbari warships sliced to pieces by
Shadow
>vessels, just as easily as everyone else. The Minbari ships are no more
>immune to Shadow weaponry than any of the other races (save the Vorlons
>and other 1st Ones, but they're in a __league__ all their own!).

Was that meant as a pun (see my emphasis)?  If not it should have been. 

Actually Mark, I think your prior work on B5 is what inspired me most. 
I 
also believe that much of what you have done has been an influencing
factor 
in the further direction of FT.  I think that now with all of the new
rules 
we have in the two FBs I can create a B5 game that is very close to core
FT. 
  I want to invent as little as possible so that the ships are at least 
comprable to the rest of the canon Tuffly'verse.

Something else has happened since I started this project a couple of
weeks 
ago, I've started to look at the show with a different eye.  I still
LOVE 
the show, but I think I've enjoyed it enough to look at it critically. 
The 
best part is discovering "accidents of the brush" - if you know what I
mean. 
  Also it means finding all the crap in the story line too, but since I 
enjoyed it so much the first two times watching the series from begining
to 
end I can put up with it.

--Peter
"Just so long as I don't have to watch "Grey 17 is Missing" _ever_
again..."
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From: Brian Burger <yh728@victoria.tc.ca>
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On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Allan Goodall wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:48:51 -0500 (EST), Mark Kochte
<kochte@stsci.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> >I've only ever seen funky snails, too (and have mind painted with
> >Amer Indian warpaint schemes). I personally don't see what the
> >others see (without some serious stretching of the imagination).
> >But I guess that depends on what's on each person's mind...	;-)
> 
> To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a snail is just a snail.

It's probably not a good idea to mention Freud in connection with the
Phalons...

What's gotten into the list in the last week? We've got Tom & Beth's
disscussion of 'single-speed tools', and now (another) Phalon thread. Is
this some sort of Christmas-shopping-induced brain damage? :>

Oh, and For The Record: My sole FT fleet is a Phalon one; I rather like
the figures, and think that Freudians should really (please) go out and
get help...

Brian - yh728@victoria.tc.ca -
- http://warbard.iwarp.com/games.html -
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Subject: Re: More weapon concept questions
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:25:57 -0800
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> Another question/idea that has been rolling around in my grey
matter,
> arising from the starfire novels

You know, the latest edition of Starfire is out, 4th edition IIRC, and
prominent among the text on the back of the box is (paraphrased)
"reduced paperwork" and "easy to understand".	 Around US$49.

If a list member who's familiar with Starfire would make a commercial
announcement every now and again, some of us might have spent our
Christmas budget a little differently. <g>