RE: GZG-NCC (was Re: Winter War 28)
From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@d...>
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:15:54 -0500
Subject: RE: GZG-NCC (was Re: Winter War 28)
Unless you are in Canada, then it would be SOUTH Cost Convention
-----
Brian Bell
bkb@beol.net
-----
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker [SMTP:s_schoon@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:20 PM
> To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: GZG-NCC (was Re: Winter War 28)
>
> >Well, you can always champion the cause of the GZG-NCC! (No Coast
> >Convention, that is, nothing to do with Star Trek... hmm, maybe we
would
> >need a different acronymn.)
>
> I actually think that NORTH Coast Convention would be appropriate!
>
> Schoon
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From: "Stark, Luke" <lcs@intonet.com>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 07:24:32 -0500
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I've been digging around in the list archives, the faq(s) and the
computer
core...
Is there any reason why no one has done a good pc-based version of FT? I
enjoy playing on the table, but don't get to play as often as I like due
mostly to the mechanics of getting everyone together and organized. I
would
/seriously/ enjoy being able to play over a network connection with my
brother-in-law (we live too far away from each other and aren't patient
enough to play by mail...*wink*) and think that a virtual table might
open
up some more options if done right.
I'm also talking turn-based...not real time. I think that making the
game
real-time would make it lose much of it's deeper strategy aspects (and
I'm
not interested in changing the game, just re-implementing it.)
I'm considering do this, but am surprised that no one else had already
done
it. Is this because no one has had sufficient need to date or what?
Opinions/reasons?
-L
Luke Stark
Boston, MA
lcs@intonet.com
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:41 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 07:57:19 -0500
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Aaron Teske <ateske@HICom.net>
Subject: Re: GZG-NCC (was Re: Winter War 28)
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At 05:03 PM 12/4/00 -0600, you wrote:
>How about:
>GZG-MWC GZG MidWest Convention
>GZG-HLC GZG HeartLand Convention
>GZG-TRC GZG Three Rivers Convention (if it's in St. Louis, Missouri,
>Mississippi and Ohio Rivers)
Hey, man, Three Rivers is *Pittsburgh*!!! Don't go stealing that for
some
other place....
>GZG-GLC GZG Great Lakes Convention (if in Chicago)
>GZG-HAC GZG Heart of America Convention (Might be misconstrued by those
>familiar with with Heart of America Historical Minis Gaming Soc. Yuck,
KC
>area people will know)
Or, for the northern US convention:
GZG-NBC GZG Northern Border Convention (with other fun(?) meanings
behind
the acronym as well!)
>Just a few ideas. If it would be within a 6-7 hour drive of Southern
>Illinois, I'd go.
Hmm... dunno where you can get in that time... and since I'm in New
Jersey,
I don't think I could really help set that one up, wherever it is....
Aaron
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:41 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:27:09 +0000
From: Jonathan white <jonw@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
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"Stark, Luke" wrote:
> I'm considering do this, but am surprised that no one else had already
done
> it. Is this because no one has had sufficient need to date or what?
> Opinions/reasons?
I believe it's one of the things Jon T has always asked to be run by him
before anyone started it. He is I believe quite rightly nervous about
things which will allow people to play FT without having bought at least
a set of rules first :). Its something I'd always liked to have seen too
but at the end of the day its his baby and his choice. IN fact if he did
get one up and running I'd be more willing to pay for that than half of
the 'proper' games software on the shelves anyway..
TTFN
Jon
-- Working in a Digital Industry with an Analogue Brain --
Jonathan White, COS group, Manchester University
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:41 2000
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From: "Izenberg, Noam" <Noam.Izenberg@jhuapl.edu>
To: "'FT List'" <GZG-L@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: [FT] Alternate Core Systems
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 08:51:34 -0500
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>> It might be on Mark's website, but I'm drawing a blank on
>> where that is.
>Right here! :-)
>http://www.bcpl.net/~indy/full-thrust/core-systems.html
BINGO!
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks all.
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:42 2000
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:05:51 -0400
From: Brian Quirt <baqrt@mta.ca>
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To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: Sensor Technology
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<3A2C520C.C49B7B5F@sympatico.ca>
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Richard Bell wrote:
>
> Skolnick's Radar Handbook will have everything you never wanted to
know about
> radar. But because there are major propogation delays in space (even
at ligh
t
> speed), you should probably read about anti-submarine warfare sensors
and
> replace sound propogation with light propogation, to get the feel of
operatin
g
> sensors in ship-to-ship combat.
Well, active sensors will be more useful for final lock-on than
for
target detection. Also, SoL delay becomes a factor only at ranges at
which weapons fire is unlikely to be successful. Even if you're not
running a drive, a few infrared scopes can pick you up fairly quickly at
1AU, and it's unlikely you'll actually be HITTING anyone at that range.
> Another good source of material is the Traveller technical manual
A.K.A "Fire
,
> Fusion, and Steel". It is more readable, and richly written. It is
meant fo
r
> a gamemaster to invent new devices for their campaigns, but has enough
scienc
e
> to provide a great deal of flavour text.
Note also that, somewhere on the web, there are a set of
"Definitive
sensor rules" for FF&S2, written by (as I recall) a person who really is
an infrared astronomer. If what you're looking for is real-life sensor
capabilities, especially in the Traveller universe, these are a must.
Ok, after a brief search, I've located the rules at:
<http://traveller.mu.org/house/sensor.rules.html>
They should at least be worth looking at.
-Brian Quirt
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 06:24:32 -0800
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Corey Burger <burgundavia@crosswinds.net>
Subject: Re: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
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Having a passable amount of Java and C++ knowledge, I have kicked around
some FT based computer games, exclusively freeware, exclusively at Jon's
explicit aprovall. Their would be a fair amount of work such as each
type
of weapon system, and whether or not to go vector or cinematic. Also,
the
problem of an AI props up. I would see it as more of a testing facility.
You design a ship, put it into the game, and then run a couple of
scenarios
to see how it fits. Thus, the game is not the end, merely the means to a
better tabletop game.
Hooking it in with one of already online ship designers would work.
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:43 2000
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From: "Stark, Luke" <lcs@intonet.com>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:01:05 -0500
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Hmmmm...yes. I had thought of that too, but since I'm still working on
the
design spec and haven't written a line of code yet, I'm not too worried.
In
fact, posting here for opinions was an attempt to get the ball rolling
and
test the water.
> I believe it's one of the things Jon T has always asked to be
> run by him before anyone started it. He is I believe quite
> rightly nervous about things which will allow people to play
> FT without having bought at least a set of rules first :).
I can understand that. I work in the software industry and piracy is an
ever
present problem, and I certainly enjoy Full Thrust enough that I would
/never/ want to harm JT's business. I do not seek to stop the flow of
future
enhancements to Full Thrust, not to mention SGII etc...
But let me state some details:
1) I am developing this as a tool for myself. I have no plans to make a
go
at being a game publisher, and especially not with someone else's hard
work.
The old cliche' goes "Software gets developed when someone has an itch
they
need to scratch" and my itch is wanting a simple, fast way to play Full
Thrust over a network connection. No aspirations for start-up funding
here.
2) If JT and the FT community does not wish to have something like this
done, then fine. I doubt very much I could accomplish it without his and
or
y'alls help anyway. And where's the fun in playing a game that you can't
talk to the community about? If my app was boycotted/banned I would lose
the
desire to work on it, since I couldn't show my face/mention it online
without getting slagged.
3) I am hoping to work out a way to have this be beneficial to the FT
community and FT as well. I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to get
this
accepted, granted, most table-top players may not care about a
pc-version.
4) I'm planning on working in a tiered fashion. Version 1.0 would only
support human-based ships, ET's would come in later versions. Version
one is
cinematic movement only. I mean, no one /really/ expects this thing to
be an
all-rule-encompassing thing right out of the box?
5) I personally have /zero desire/ to make money from this. I am quite
comfortable in my career as a web developer and do not wish to gamble on
something as long-shot as releasing a game. I had hoped to submit the
game
to JT (and the community) for review. If he wants to approve it and sell
it,
then fine, we can certainly come to an agreement about that. If he
approves
of it and wants to give it away with each copy of FT, fine by me. If he
hates it and wants it to die a painful death, well...maybe I'll just use
it
to generate my ships and print them out.
> Its something I'd always liked to have seen too but at the end
> of the day its his baby and his choice. IN fact if he did
> get one up and running I'd be more willing to pay for that
> than half of the 'proper' games software on the shelves anyway..
I think that would probably be the case too. Everyone who plays his
games
are rabid about them anyway...wink. I've never heard of pirated copies
of
the rule books floating around the net...most players are to devoted to
commit such an atrocity...hopefully that would also carry over to the
bits
on a CD...
...but this is far, far in the future. Nothing even exists yet. I just
want
to see how people feel about it and solicit opinions...hopefully JT will
express his.
-L
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:43 2000
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From: "Stark, Luke" <lcs@intonet.com>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:08:23 -0500
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> Having a passable amount of Java and C++ knowledge, I have
> kicked around some FT based computer games, exclusively freeware,
> exclusively at Jon's explicit aprovall.
Did you go about getting that approval in the same way I am (by asking
the
list)? What other avenue's should I take?
> Their would be a fair amount of work such
> as each type of weapon system, and whether or not to go vector or
> cinematic.
I had planned on posting the design specification to the list/web and
asking
for input.
> Also, the problem of an AI props up.
I had /not/ planned an AI. I do not wish to play this game alone. What I
enjoy most is the team play and community effect. I do not want to take
away
from the community, so someone else can design that AI later, but I have
no
interest in it.
> Hooking it in with one of already online ship designers would work.
I have not found a ship designer I enjoyed using. Perhaps I have not
seen
tham all...
-L
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:42 2000
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From: "Bob Makowsky" <rmako@coqui.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <F021B784A8C9D411A66F0002A52CA9360A50B1@nt-exc1.arepa.com>
Subject: Re: Question that may be really *old*...
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 11:20:11 -0400
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This combined with the bridge simulators I have seen would be fun. Turn
based and you can play as Fleet Commander seeing the full sensor suites
or
as individual ship COs.
Before we go too far there is the matter of licensing.
Bob Makowksy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stark, Luke" <lcs@intonet.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:24 AM
Subject: FT: Question that may be really *old*...
> I've been digging around in the list archives, the faq(s) and the
computer
> core...
>
> Is there any reason why no one has done a good pc-based version of FT?
I
> enjoy playing on the table, but don't get to play as often as I like
due
> mostly to the mechanics of getting everyone together and organized. I
would
> /seriously/ enjoy being able to play over a network connection with my
> brother-in-law (we live too far away from each other and aren't
patient
> enough to play by mail...*wink*) and think that a virtual table might
open
> up some more options if done right.
>
> I'm also talking turn-based...not real time. I think that making the
game
> real-time would make it lose much of it's deeper strategy aspects (and
I'm
> not interested in changing the game, just re-implementing it.)
>
> I'm considering do this, but am surprised that no one else had already
done
> it. Is this because no one has had sufficient need to date or what?
>
> Opinions/reasons?
>
> -L
>
> Luke Stark
> Boston, MA
> lcs@intonet.com
>
>
From - Wed Dec 06 17:41:43 2000
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From: "Barclay, Tom" <tomb@bitheads.com>
To: "Gzg Digest (E-mail)" <GZG-L@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: fleet sizes
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:44:02 -0500
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Have to disagree with Chris' assessment of the PAU. Having seen some
projections of how their economy might go, I think it might be far more
comparable to the NAC than you think.... not a match, to be sure, but
far
better than one might suspect watching Sally Struthers in Etheopia or
Somalia. If they get good water, abundant energy resources (which will
both
lead to more food) and a bit of political stability for even a short
while,
their economy will probably boom quite hugely so flat curve growth
projections are out the window. Now, is 66 percent of NAC size too big?
Quite possibly. I'd guess more like 25%.
As for the Gurkha world (The Re-established Empire of Gorhka), its fleet
(which I have pretty much entire) consists of a bunch of outmoded NAC
hand
me downs, a bunch of outmoded ESU hand me downs, maybe a few IF ships
(from
the Sultan of Brunei) and one UNSC light carrier, donated by the UN as a
gesture of good faith. Most of these ships are of the "older" design,
with a
bit of waste space to account for their antiquity. I have the fleet
roster
done up at home, although I don't have things web-ready yet. Their fleet
is
enough to deter casual incursions, but if the KV came knocking with the
purpose of invasion or the ESU really got mad enough to take some losses
and
send a big force, then they'd be up the crick. I think the light carrier
is
their largest ship (and the only "latest generation" vessel).... a heavy
cruiser and a few light cruisers, a bunch of destroyers, escorts, SDBs,
fighters, etc. All told, not enough to do more than defend the system
well.
I think the "militancy" of the ESU will help make up for its shortages
economically. They probably accept that to compete with the NAC means a
tad
lower standard of living and so they spend more of GNP. I'd guess they
are
probably about equal in raw numbers to the NAC, though I suspect NAC
crew
quality and systems quality is higher.
My 0.02.
------------------------------------------
Thomas R. S. Barclay
Voice: (613) 722-3232 ext 349
e-mail: tomb@bitheads.com
Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies.
Voltaire (1694-1778), on his death bed in response to a priest asking
that
he renounce Satan.
------------------------------------------