Re: [FT] Orbits/Defsats, etc.

On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Barclay, Tom wrote:

> Thanks Schoon! Here's some follow up work for you and the other space
> cowboys (come on Noam or Indy... I imagine one of you astronomical
types
> must have some thoughts...) 

Been too busy to think orbital mechanics here. Noam, you ought to
pass this on to Karl (W), get his opinion/output on the matter. Give
him something to do while NEAR is spiraling.  ;-)

Mk

> You said:
> 
> We're going to assume circular orbits just to keep things simple...
> The equation we use is r=[(G*M*T^2)/(4*pi^2)]^1/3, where G is the 
> gravitational constant, M is the mass of the planet, and T is the 
> desired period.
> For Earth, that boils down to 4.23*10^7 m for a period of 1 day
> That's 4.23*10^4 km, or 42.3 inches at your game scale
> 
> It seems to me we have r is proportional to T^2 relationship here
(with of
> course a factor K to represent the other constants). So, radius
increases as
> period increases. If you want to rotate 1 day as opposed to 1 per
hour,
> you're looking at a far far wider radius. 
> 
> But the key question here is how tight can I have my orbit be and NOT
have
> it decay? That is to say, if I want the defsat constellation near the
planet
> (say 12" out from the planet centre, about 8-9" out from the surface
for
> example), am I "in atmosphere" and therefore is my little satellite
burning
> up? What would a reasonable limit be for atmospheres of "class M" (ie
Earth
> like) planets be? Would it be a function of radius of the planet? If
so, any
> idea what formula might apply? 
> 
> My interest is figuring out (semi-acceptably) how I can put up a
> constellation of defsats for an inhabitable earth-ish colony world and
have
> it orbit at a radius that fits on my board (therefore the radius
shouldn't
> be more than 24" and better if it were 12") and have the satellites
close
> enough together to give some mutual support (I expect to use 12, 1 at
each
> clock point). Assuming class 3 beams for example or pulse torps, under
30"
> would seem to be a good separation along the orbital path, ideally
12-24".
> 12" would allow excellent suppport. And for this radius, I need to
figure
> out how fast they move in a turn along the orbital path (formula given
> already probably is sufficient once I have the write altitude/period).
But
> if this would put them "in atmosphere", I guess I need to know that. 
> 
> Actually, instead of a formula for r, it might be good to have a
formula for
> T (since that determines speed along the orbital path) given we pick a
value
> of R. But I'm afraid its been a few years since I mucked around with
> formulas like that (computer guys do a far different kind of math than
EE or
> Mech Eng types or ballistics dudes). 
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> Thomas R. S. Barclay
> Voice: (613) 722-3232 ext 349
> e-mail: tomb@bitheads.com
> 
> Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies.
> 
> Voltaire (1694-1778), on his death bed in response to a priest asking
that
> he renounce Satan.
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:30 2000
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From: "Jesse Casey" <jessecasey@netzero.net>
To: "GZG-L" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: [OT] Starship Troopers
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:06:38 -0600
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GAMES
Humanity battled the bugs in Robert Heinlein's novel and Paul
Verhoeven's
film, and now it's time for gamers to become "Starship Troopers"
themselves
on their PCs.

http://www.scifiweekly.com/issue188/games.html

_______________________________________________
Why pay for something you could get for free?
NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:34 2000
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Dirtside Question: Zero or low G combat
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:13:24 +0100
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Noel Weer wrote:

[snip]

>In a nutshell, we are not only dealing with visibility issues. I know
it 
>would be hard to account for, but how much would the sensors be
>effected by a shorter horizon?

Depends on what sensors, and what platform they're carried on. EM-based
sensors (radar, eyes, IR etc) placed on a ground vehicle need  LOS
though, and they're (at least currently) the most useful for ones for
targetting other weapons than artillery and guided missiles.

But even if your *sensors* can see over the horizon, you've got another
problem (Beth was spot on here). Direct-fire weapon trajectories are
close to straight lines - the curvature of a laser beam over a
planetary surface is negligible, and the highest point of a
hyper-velocity long-rod trajectory (HVC, HKP or MDC rounds) is only a
few meters above the straight line between weapon and target. If the
target is below the horizon, the weapon trajectory goes through the
intervening ground... and unless "the ground" is a few meters of
relatively loosely packed sand berm, it'll stop your shots quite
effectively.

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:34 2000
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Corvus Drop Ship
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:17:48 +0100
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Joseph Arnold wrote:

>Odd that they would name a drop ship Corvus, not an assault shuttle.
>Corvus of course being the name for the ramp used on Roman >warships
for boarding actions. Corvuc also menaing Crow in latin. >The big spike
on the end of the ramp looked like a crow's beak, hence >the name. Damn
practical people, them Romans.

Yeah... they were practical enough to remove the corvuses after they'd
lost a couple fleets in rough weather because the corvuses made the
ships too top-heavy to stay right-side-up <g>

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:31 2000
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From: Popeyesays@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:29:26 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Starship Troopers
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In a message dated 12/1/00 11:06:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
jessecasey@netzero.net writes:

> , and now it's time for gamers to become "Starship Troopers"
themselves
> on their PCs.
> 
> 

It reeks of the grotesque film made of Heinlein's book. Hopefully we'll
not 
start the flame war about the book and the movie again 9tongue slightly
in 
cheek since I obviously inserted my feelings in the post.) If they had
left 
out the influence of the non-pwer infantry invented whole-cloth by the 
director of the film, I might consider the game, but if they inserted
that 
they may have inserted the director's "mankind is just a bunch of
Nazi's" 
social cant into the game. I will wait, til I see it in a demo
somewhere.

--part1_a.57883f1.275939f6_boundary
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/1/00 11:06:40 AM Central
Standard Tim
e, <BR>jessecasey@netzero.net writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5
px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">, and now it's time for gamers
to bec
ome "Starship Troopers" themselves
<BR>on their PCs.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>It reeks of the grotesque film made of Heinlein's book. Hopefully
we'll not
 <BR>start the flame war about the book and the movie again 9tongue
slightly in
 <BR>cheek since I obviously inserted my feelings in the post.) If they
had lef
t <BR>out the influence of the non-pwer infantry invented whole-cloth by
the <B
R>director of the film, I might consider the game, but if they inserted
that <B
R>they may have inserted the director's "mankind is just a bunch of
Nazi's" <BR
>social cant into the game. I will wait, til I see it in a demo
somewhere.</FON
T></HTML>

--part1_a.57883f1.275939f6_boundary--
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:31 2000
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From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@dscc.dla.mil>
To: "'gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu'" <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: [OT] Starship Troopers
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:48:11 -0500 
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I took a quick look at the box a couple of days ago. The pictures on
the inside cover show someone in power armor, although it looked
much more exoskeleton than true power armor. I did not read if they
added had any special abilities. But I wouldn't look for them jumping
kms at a hop and lobbing nukes.

The game graphics looked good, though.

Priced too high, though. There are VERY few games that I woudl pay
more than $30us for. (Says the guy who spent much more than that
for miniatures for GZGECC IV).

-----
Brian Bell	
-----

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Popeyesays@aol.com [SMTP:Popeyesays@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:29 PM
> To:	gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject:	Re: [OT] Starship Troopers
> 
> In a message dated 12/1/00 11:06:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
> jessecasey@netzero.net writes: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and now it's time for gamers to become "Starship Troopers"
themselves 
> on their PCs. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It reeks of the grotesque film made of Heinlein's book. Hopefully
we'll
> not 
> start the flame war about the book and the movie again 9tongue
slightly in
> 
> cheek since I obviously inserted my feelings in the post.) If they had
> left 
> out the influence of the non-pwer infantry invented whole-cloth by the

> director of the film, I might consider the game, but if they inserted
that
> 
> they may have inserted the director's "mankind is just a bunch of
Nazi's" 
> social cant into the game. I will wait, til I see it in a demo
somewhere.
From - Mon Dec 04 11:29:32 2000
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Subject: Re: [OT] Starship Troopers
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Um, perhaps they meant it as a joke BUT their javascript code is
totally,
um, BUGGY.  At least two major errors on the page!
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth Fulton" <beth.fulton@marine.csiro.au>
> Remember it [Star Wars] was written for 6-8 year olds (many of whom >
think just like that) ;)
> I know most adults can't stand episode 1 but all the kids I know who
> are less than 10 loved it (particularly Jar-Jar). Come to think of it
how
> old  were we all when the originals came out?? ;)

20-something and still loved 'Star Wars'. Now you can guess my present
age
:-(

Greetings
Karl Heinz