Re: [DS2] Close Assault question and other questions

"Bell, Brian K" wrote:
> 
> Interesting!

It is, isn't it?
 
> I have not seen this option (different set of actions
> for different elements as described on p. 18) used
> except where elements are unable to fire, so it
> becomes part of the unit doing fire and move and part
> of the unit just moving.

The most common use of this I have seen is in instances where the leader
element calls for an artillery strike while the other elements execute
direct fire.
 
> I suppose that this could be read two different ways.
> In re-reading the combat section, Vehicle combat is
> refered to element by element. Infantry combat is
> always refers to a unit. So you could read it:
> 1) Vehicle elements may choose different actions as on
>    p. 18, but Infantry units must act as a whole (as
>    much as possible. Many specialist teams (elements)
>    described on p. 13 may not conduct ranged combat).
> 2) Different elements of ANY unit may perform different
>    actions as described on p. 18 (including close
>    assault).

I generally support this interpretation. It makes a lot of sense as I
read back through things.
 
> The second option however, it does lead to some
> interesting situations:
> 
> If a single element close-assaults a unit, that element
> attacking must make the same reaction test (RT)
> regardless to whether his is out numbered or not (i.e.
> same check if one element is attacking 6 elements or 6
> elements are attacking 1 element. In the same way the
> defender makes the same confidence test (CT) regardless
> if it is one element attacking or 20.

Makes sense, as is you have that situation if 5 attack 4, etc...
 
> Each element in the same unit making a seperate close
> assault on a unit (increases chance the defending unit
> will retreat).

True, to a certain extent. Wouldn't any elements within the unit
choosing to close assault have go simultaneously? At a minimum you could
argue that there wasn't enough "time" in a turn to charge in echelon.
 
> A unit will often end up out of unit integrety after a close assault.

Too true. particularly aggravated if only 1 or two elements charge.
 
> Here are some additional questions:
> 
> 1) Close Assault is described as a combat action, but it
>    includes a move. The rules state that it must be done
>    BEFORE a move. Can a unit that has performed a close
>    assault move after the close assault (not including
>    a followthrough action)? We have always played that a
>    Close Assault takes both the move and combat action of
>    a unit; but we could have been playing wrong.

We have played the same way. I do not think it is wrong. Following a
close assault even a victorious unit is probably too disorganized to
perform any useful actions (except a follow-thru).
 
> 2) If some of an armor unit is moving then firing and the
>    other is firing then moving, would this be 2, 3, or 4
>    phases for the unit. It could makes a difference if
>    elements are caught by opprotunity fire. Example: An
>    armor unit    consists of 2 AFVs with fixed mounted
>    weapons (call it Type A) and 3 AFVs with full turrets
>    (call it Type B). The player decideds to have the Type
>    A units fire then move (only way for Type A to fire)
>    and the Type B units to move then fire. Enemy unit X
>    can call opprotunity fire on the unit as it moves. What
>    is the proper sequence for the first unit:
>
> i) Type A fires while Type B moves; then Type B fires while
>    Type A moves. (2 phases) If this is is used, op fire
>    can only be called on Type A or Type B.
> ii) Type A fires then moves; then it fires; Type B moves;
>    then fires (4 phases) Using this option, op fire can
>    only be called on either Type A or Type B.
> iii) Type A fires; then both Type A and Type B move; then
>    Type B fires. (3 phases) Using this option, op fire
>    would be called on both Type A and Type B.

This seems less complicated. The rule states "When opportunity fire is
declared, the opposing player must pause in moving his elements while
the player who wishes to fire at them does so and resolves all
subsequent effects." 
At any time that a player declares opportunity fire in the process -
however that process is being carried out by the moving player -
everything stops. The moving player must be prepared for this, but it is
upon the firing player to time his declaration for the greatest effect,
as the opportunity presents itself.
 
> 3) Since most people move one element at a time when
>    moving miniatures, is opportunity fire called on an
>    element as it moves or on the unit? I.e. Player A
>    has 5 AFVs in a unit and player B has 5 AFVs in a
>    unit. Player A moves one element and player B calls
>    for op fire. Is only the first element in danger of
>    op fire? Does each element that then crosses become
>    open to op fire? Is the unit of player A brought in
>    to unit integrety then op fire is applied? What if
>    player B waits unit the 2nd element is being moved?
>    Is the first element brought back into unit integrety?

The unit integrity question is pretty good. My gut says that integrity
is checked at the end of the activation and not during it. 

As to the first part, once opportunity fire is declared all moving
elements freeze and only those elements in LOS of the firing unit are
available to be targeted. Again, it is up to the declaring player to
time it to his benefit, not the moving player.
 
> -----
> Brian Bell
> bkb@beol.net
> http://www.ftsr.org/ds2/
> -----
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noel Weer [SMTP:nsweer@ice.net]
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 8:53 PM
> > To:   GZG Mailing List
> > Subject:	  [DS2] Close Assault question
> >
> > I was wondering about close assaults and whether they need to be
carried
> > out as a unit, or can single elements within a unit perform one
while
> > other elements take other actions (such as provide covering fire,
move,
> > or retreat shielded by the assault)?
> >
> > On page 18 it says "Different elements in the unit may choose
different
> > options;..." Which makes tons of sense and provides excellent
command
> > flexibility.
> >
> > But every mention of close assault specifically discusses it in
terms of
> > UNITS, so I am inclined to think that it is a not an elemental
option.
> >
> > But on page 34 close assaults are described as combat actions; "One
> > CLOSE ASSAULT may be made by a Unit during its activation, counting
as
> > its Combat Action." As a combat action it may slip back into the
realm
> > of options to consider at an elemental level.
> >
> > It is too late to address the specific instance that came up 2 days
ago,
> > but for future reference: is Close Assault a special combat action
that
> > functions only at the unit level, or can elements close assault
> > individually?
> >
> > This is my first post to the list - so if this is old news - be
gentle
> > :)
> >
> > (FYI, we let my opponent carry out the assault. I held my ground and
> > wiped out the charge.)
> >
> > --
> > The Middle Ages were a great time to be alive,
> > because if you weren't wiped out by the Plague
> > or impaled by some marauding barbarian, then yippee.
> >	 "chocolate covered musings"
> >	 (http://www.amused.com/nick.html)

-- 
The Middle Ages were a great time to be alive, 
because if you weren't wiped out by the Plague 
or impaled by some marauding barbarian, then yippee. 
     "chocolate covered musings"
     (http://www.amused.com/nick.html)