Prev: RE: [FT] Starship! was [FT] arcs in vector Next: Re: Gencon UK 2000 Results

RE: DS2 Drop Troops and Drop VEHICLES!!!

From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@d...>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:34:16 -0400
Subject: RE: DS2 Drop Troops and Drop VEHICLES!!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn m wilson []
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 5:43 PM
> To:;
> gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Cc:
> Subject:	DS2 Drop Troops and Drop VEHICLES!!!
> Still working the details on that low/mid tech force:  8^)
> Okay I am looking at the rules for Dirtside 2 on page 43.
> "...Certain specially-equipped elements (known as DROP TROOPS) may be
> "directly inserted" to the battle area by either parachute/parajet
> high-flying transports, or in ballistic entry capsules from an
> ship..."
> Okay, so far.  There are two choices - 
> a) extensions of today's 82nd Airborne (to use the US model)
> b) Death from WAY above - space 'dropped'
> To continue:
> "...If dropped from within atmosphere, line or powered infantry may be
> used; only Powered troops may drop directly from orbit.  Only infantry
> and Very Light (class 1) vehicles and equipment may be paradropped,
> the only type of non-infantry element that may be orbitally dropped is
> the Infantry Walker..."
> Okay, a few points are raised - 
> As in case "a" above, it appears that class 1 AFV's can be dropped by
> "within atmosphere" paradrop/parajet.  Yes?
[Bri] True.

> Okay, I have some class 1 APC's (room for 1 FT, 2 APSW's - (one 'free'
> APSW, and one 'at cost'  [and the only weapon besides the 'free' one
> can be on that size vehicle]) for my Drop Troops to obtain some
> mobility.  Do they drop as integral (shudder) or do they drop as an
> unattached unit and use "Regrouping" to merge the two units?
[Bri] Good question. DS2 does not have any rules for combining two
units into one unit (just recombining units that are out of integrity).
Many use house rules to allow this however.

> Do the crews drop with the vehicles?	I also have planned some other
> class 1 vehicles for their support - an AGV (Assault Gun Vehicle ) -
> class 1, fixed DFFG/2 plus 'free' APSW; and an (anti-armor/hold the
> position)  ATM vehicle (size 1,  GMS/H and 'free' APSW.)  Do their
> drop with the vehicles (same chit for vehicle and crew) or does it
> an extra turn (or different chits?!?!)  for the vehicle crews to mount
> and begin moving into integrity distance?  I hold, given the time
> (15 minutes) referenced on page 4, and defined as '...pretty loose...'
> that the vehicle crews can mount up and move into integrity with no
> further penalty other then starting out of unit integrity.  Whether or
> not they jump 'with,'  'in'  or  'on'  the vehicles! Sound valid?
[Bri]  See comment on above on combining units. I would suggest that the

answer depends on the player and unit organization. If the vehicle is
of the unit, then the troops should drop with it. If the vehicle is a
unit, then it should drop separately. Page 43 indicates that units drop 
out of integrity, so the 1st turn would be spent getting back in to unit
integrity. As a house rule I would allow the unit to mount the vehicle
the same time, but I would clarify it before the game.

> Class 2 can be Interface Lander entered I gather from the wording on
> 43, Interface Landing since Dropships specifically mention "...Heavy
> Armor..." where the Assault Landers can carry "...couple of elements
> one complete unit..."  I would assume that only one or two class 2
> vehicles would drop in an Interface Lander...
[Bri] Assault Landers could be built to a number of sizes. The military 
doctrine of your forces would determine the size of Lander used. You
invest in an assault lander that drops an entire unit of 5 - Size 5
but it would seem to draw a lot of AA attention. I would suggest that
set a house rule on the size that the Lander can accommodate. 
You could limit Assault Landers to be a max of size 5. To determine the 
amount of capacity a vehicle takes up, multiply the size * 8 (p.12). 
Infantry may be IN an APC that is in the Lander (ala Aliens) and the 
Lander would not have to pay for the capacity to carry the infantry as
was already covered by the capacity of the APC.
Example: Size 5 (max) Assault lander has a capacity of 25. It devotes
9 of this to a HEL-3 fixed mount and 3 to a PDS system. This leaves 
16 capacity points for it to carry. Thus it could carry 2 - size 1 APC
with infantry mounted in the APCs; 1 - size 2 vehicles; 4 line infantry 
elements without vehicle support; OR 2 Power Infantry elements.

> So, I could I.L. a unit of Class 2 LGV's (Light Gun Vehicle - turreted
> DFFG/3,  2xAPSW (one free and one @ one cap point)) along with the
> infantry.  I could also land their supporting assault mechanized units
> APC models : (1 FT space, GMS/H, PDS/basic, 'free APSW") OR (1 FT
> GMS/L, PDS/Superior, 'free' APSW) OR ( 2 FT space, PDS/basic, 'free'
> IFV model: (1 FT space,Turreted  RFAC/2, "free APSW)
> LGV/ATM hybrid: (Turreted DFFG/2, GMS/H, 'free' APSW)
> And for the class 3,	class 4 and (infrequent)  class 5 vehicles it
> be the "Drop Ship"  mode of entry, correct?
[Bri] If you took my suggestion, above, about limiting Assault Landers
size 5 vehicles, then you could land a size-3 vehicle (mech) but the 
Lander would have no room for any systems (size-3 vehicle takes 24
capacity points out of the class-5's 25 available). Not a very good use
of an assault lander IMHO. So, yes, the units, below, would be better
served by landing in a Dropship.

> The size 3's are the 'Mech' arm of the force -
> APC/IFV - (1 FT space, GMS/H, turreted DFFG/2, 2xAPSW)
> APC - (2 FT space, GMS/H, MDC/1 turret, APSW)
> MGV (Medium Gun Vehicle) - HVC/4* turret, PDS/Enhanced, APSW
> * I am considering a DFFG/4 but that will depend on how 'mid-tech' I
> this low/mid tech force to be on completion of the design.
> LBT/LTD  - Turreted HKP/4**,	PDS/Enhanced, APSW
> ** Could sub HKP/3 with HEL/1 Coax and upgrade the PDS, but it seems a
> bit 'high-tech' from the goal of the design...
> ATM - two GMS/H, a PDS/Superior, and a 'free' APSW (*and two wasted
> points.)
> The "Armored" part:
> There are MBT (HKP/5 based), TD (two models - using HKP/5 [2 fixed] OR
> 3xGMS/H  and a MDC/2 turret basis), and HGV (HVC/5 based) designs for
> size 4 vehicles.
> There are HBT ( 2 models using HKP/5), VHGV (2xHVC5),  and
> an HIFV (2 FT, HVC/5, PDS/basic) for size 5.	I don't know about that
> HIFV....
> Thanks for letting me ramble.
> Gracias, Triphibious/Glenn
> Triphibious Marines = Nektons.
> Not all Frogs are French, or even Human!
> Nektons, be all the Marine you can be!
> Resistance is EVERYTHING!
-----End Original Message-----

My comments marked by [Bri]

The above sounds like a good DS2 battle. Assault Landers bring in a
force of
light (size 2 and smaller) units who have the mission to take a
spaceport/landing field needed for the Dropship.

Brian Bell

Prev: RE: [FT] Starship! was [FT] arcs in vector Next: Re: Gencon UK 2000 Results