RE: [Fwd: "Custom" fleets]

> stiltman@teleport.com wrote:
> 
	....Reflex field.

> > One problem:  you don't get to know whether the fields are up until
> you've
> > already fired at them.  That's specifically stated as a rule for
them in
> the
> > original entry for them in MT.
> 
So strike that. I'll go for the Novas. I wonder if/how a Reflex Field
needs
to change to balance in FT 2.5.Your balance notes make some sense, but I
wonder how they'd playtest with FB level ships.
>  
> > > Rock, paper, scissors. You think I'd throw the same fleet at a
reflex
> field?
> > 
> > Major assumption problem here:  you don't know if I'm going to fly
> anything
> > with a reflex field or not.  ....
> 
Even _more_ rock/paper/scissors. Do you play with any kind of sensor
rules
that can give this info before anyone fires?

	> If you see a really large
> > mass, that _might_ be the version I showed you earlier... or it
might be
> a
> > horribly beweaponed monster with class-5 or class-6 beams just to
tick
> you
> > off.  :)
> 
If it were class 5, I wouldn't worry about it. If it were class 6, I'd
have
to see If I could take it - that might almost be a fair fight.

 I doubt I'd agree to play many games like this, though. You wouldn't
enjoy
my conceding whenever I thought one of us (either one) had brought a
rock to
fight paper. I wouldn't have too much fun on either rock or paper side
(well, at least after the first three times I wrapped your rock), so
would
opt for another game.

> > This is cinematic movement, remember.  You're not going to fire the
nova
> cannon
> > at me at the same time as you're keeping away from me.  You _have_
to be
> either
> > facing me or flying towards me to use it.  And against something
that
> size,
> > you're not going to do damage anywhere near fast enough to make it
worth
> it.
> 
Who needs speed? I can stand still from, what, 75" away and blast at
will.
2-12 points a shotx2 Novas with all the time in the world. Can't say
it'd be
the most fun game, but it'd work.
>  
> > > Aside from a fixed edge being an entirely artificial limitation in
a
> space
> > > game, here's four reasons not to play fixed (take a 100x100 field
as
> an
> > > example): 1) Edge crawlers, 2) Corner squatters,
> > 
> > These two things simply don't happen with us.  We typically play on
a
> living
> > room floor, and although we do have a fixed playing space the edges
are
> not
> > real specifically defined; .....
> 
Hm. A "soft" edge is almost worse than a "hard" edge, since it "how far
is
too far" becomes a matter of opinion rather than fact.

> > >3) Behemoths/fleets with
> > > kill zones that fill 10-20% of the entire playing field, 4)
Snipers
> that can
> > > cover 80% of the playing field at all times.
> > 
> > We don't have much trouble with either of these because closing on
them
> and
> > punishing them up close isn't typically that hard.
> 
It is with thrust 1.
>  
> > > > We simply don't have people deliberately try to abuse the
borders.
> > 
> > > Perhaps not, but your starting conditions play right into the
hands of
> a big
> > > spinner. You said you start ~70" apart 15-20" from the edges. For
a
> spinner
> > > with 24" range weapons that _is_ sitting on the edge. Anything
between
> the
> > > spinner and the far edge is a kill zone, effectively cutting off
> 25-50% of
> > > possible attack vectors for opposing ships (depending on how wide
your
> table
> > > is).
> > 
> > Yes, but it also leaves them horrifically vulnerable to needle beams
if
> they
> > try that.  Sacrifice a couple of fast needle craft to take out their
> drives,
> > then park your ships in their weakest arc(s) and take them apart.
> 
Too easily countered. The point I wanted to make is that  your default
setup
favors this kind of design over high maneuver ships, when a floating
table
does not have that bias.

> > See other post.  I've used Oerjan Velocities in my games before, to
> great
> > effect.  I'm just not going to use them on _all_ of my ships too
often.
> 
Then you're opponents don't seem to be learning from you (E.g. the KV
should
know before starting not to suicide charge a Plansma barage). That can't
be
too fun, or challenging.

> > > Semantics, semantics. I call it taking advantage of the space.
> Conversely,
> > > as pointed out above, spining dreadplanet 20" (even 30") away from
one
> edge
> > > is effectively an abuse of the fixed edge.
> > 
> > Doesn't usually happen.  The fighters usually decide the game well
> before it
> > gets to this point, and if they don't, the dreadplanet itself
usually
> goes
> > and runs down enemy carriers ship-to-ship if it gets out-fightered.
> 
A thrust 1 ship can't run down anything except a starbase. Even a thrust
2
eggshell carrier that starts out of range can stay out of range as long
as
it wants.
>  
> > > 'Course as Oerjan said, the initial excercise (killing the
> dreadplanet)
> > > could be accomplished by a single Kormarov and other standard FB1
> ships.
> > 
> > The Komarov has to point its front end at the dreadplanet to fire
Class
> 4
> > beams.  In cinematic movement, that means you _cannot_ both fire
that
> and
> > use your thrust to stay away from me.  You've got all of a 12 MU
window,
> > even assuming I _don't_ tweak the "dreadplanet" to carry Class 4's
> itself.
> 
Of course, I made that assumption. I wasn't playing tweak/countertweak,
and
I wasn't planning on rehashing that particular take, since it wasn't my
original idea.

	Noam