[OT] Air combat games

Oh learned list members.  I'm looking for a game suggestion.  I know
this is off topic, so please send responses to me directly.  If
there's a lot of interest, I can post a summary.

I'm looking for a good WWII type air combat game.  I'd like fairly
simple, but I'm not willing to abstract away things like altitude
(unless someone can convince me it works).  FASA's Crimson Skies
looked really good, except it sounds too abstract.  I like the idea of
jockeying for hight.  I'd like to use this for a Crimson Skies type
environment, but also doing some Aeronefs (anyone try those rules?) and
Sky Gallons of Mars (opinions on these rules?) type scenarios.	So
both WWII esq. fighters and flying ships.  

Thanks for any answers or feedback people might have.

-=- Matthew L. Seidl		email: seidl@cs.colorado.edu		
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