Re: 4th Heavy Beams

On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Izenberg, Noam wrote:

> >From: Tom Anderson <thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk>
> >>And: Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:
> 
> >> [Two step BPS Damage]
> 
> >However, i query the intent: how do you justify BPSs taking two hits
like
> > drives, rather than one hit, like every other weapon system?
> 
> Because it has the extra vulnerability of 2 systems on the SSD.

like SML + mag, as you say ...

> The better
> comparison is the SML+ Magazine, and that's so subject to random
factors as
> to be hard to compare with confidence.

really? does anyone [1] think the SM(L+M) combination can be analysed?

in any case, you haven't answered the question: you say two hits is
appropriate for the HB but not the SM, and then say you can't explain
why
because the SM is too random. if there's extra vulnerability, make it
lighter and cheaper to balance it, don't mess about with the basic
patterns of the game.

maybe we should say that HBPS are knocked out like every other weapon
system, but that the KO represents damage to the connector; it can still
charge up, but not use any of the stored power, and when it is fixed,
the
power becomes usable. that would soften the blow somewhat, and be
analogous to SMs in a damaged magazine being usable once the mag has
been
fixed.

> >> When firing, each EP assigned to a BE allows one die roll. Subtract
one
> >> from this die for each full 6 MU of range, and the result is the
damage
> >> done to the target.
> 
> >iow, guaranteed damage at ranges under 6 MU.
> 
> You Betcha.  Anyone careless enough to get in that close and inside
the
> single arc deserves what they get.

uh? so it's okay for rules to be unbalanced, because if people fall foul
of them, its their own fault for being so stupid? besides, with multiple
emitters, it's not single-arc, is it? and, as Kr'rt said, 6 mu is not
that
hard to do (for some people, anyway).

you still have to account for the fact that there is *no* other weapon
system which does guaranteed damage and which doesn't require movement
guessing (i'm thinking of the the nova cannon and the SM) (correct me if
i'm wrong - certainly no major weapon systems).

> > i disagree very strongly with this. could we have -1 for each '6 MU
or
> part thereof' of range instead?
> 
> Bleagh. Makes 'em weaker  _and_ more expensive than Ptorps. 

so make them lighter/cheaper.

> As is, HBW is only superior, per die, to P-torps below 12". A Ptorp is
> superior to _2_ HBW dice at 18-24" with your system. Cripples it with
the
> restricted arc and double system on the SSD.

cost/mass adjustments?

> Even with cost/mass adjustments, why not go for torps?

i suggest shifting the range increment, so they're useful at longer
ranges. then they become less of a close-in weapon than the PT, and more
of a general-purpose one.

> >... perhaps the range increment
> > could be made 8 mu to compensate; max range goes from 36 to 40.
> 
> Still don't like it.	Still weaker and more expensive than Ptorps in
almost
> all ranges P-torps can fire in. Is 0.167 points of damage per die
average at
> range 32-40 compensation? I don't think so.

i'm not claiming to have number-crunched any of this; i'm just saying
that
two details of the HB proposal make unprecedented changes to the game.
now, that may or may not matter, but i'd like to see a convincing
argument
as to why the coherence of FT needs to be broken.

> >> Screens and Kra'Vak type armor affect heavy beams the same way.
Each
> level
> >> subtracts one from the roll for each EP. Heavy beams are affected
by
> Human
> >> type armor in the same manner as normal beams.
> 
> >how is damage split between armour and hull? given that this is
supposed
> >to be a deeply gouging weapon, i suggest half on each, in the manner
of
> >PTs.
> 
> If it's a gouger, then once it gets past the armor, it should all be
hull.
> I'd say first point from each die is armor, the rest are hull, or
> simplified, Armor up to number of dice thrown, the rest hull.

another new mechanism. otoh, i quite like this one :O.

> I'll settle
> for half and half as long as it's rounded in favor of more hull
damage.

i'd say use half-half exactly like other penetrating weapons myself -
KISS.

tom

[1] Oerjan :)