The UN

Don spake thus:

Looking over this list, the thought that occurs to me is this: what's
the
difference between the UN and any other nation-state? If it has it's own
citizens, it has de facto sovereignty. Checking over the rest of the
list
the UN seems just like every other nation in the GZG universe (or many
nations IRL). What makes it interesting is that an international
organization has (seemingly) gone from a forum of independant nations to
being a nation in and of itself. How long will it take for that nation
to
look out for it's own interests, as opposed to the putative interests of
its member states? Of course, going by the "there are no good guys" rule
we
could say that this is exactly what's going on. A Great Power claiming
the
moral high ground (working for All Humanity) and cyniclly manipulating
the
diplomatic situation to increase it's own power, at the expense if it's
rivals. . . errr member states. Hmmm, anyone else now suspicious of the
Kra'Vak incursion? Finally, GZG UN that I can believe in.  :-)	 

** Seems likely to me. Now the cynic in me says this is happening today.
Adding some independent citizens (small in number, but high in
education),
some revenue generation, and some more military teeth will only
accelerate
the process. Their are probably those working for the aims of humanity
(the
idealists - if I thought I could be a citizen of Human Space by giving
up
local citizenship, I'd think about it myself) and those working to build
their local mini-feudality up in power and control. Some doing both...

Or, since there are no good guys, they are increasing their control over
the important centers of power in the Human Sphere, and the backwards
colonials can sod off, unless they can be used as a pretext for weaking
the
traditional Great Powers.

** It'd probably be sold that the Colonies can't be policed right now,
but
when the UN has the resources, it will extend its *protection* out to
the
colonies too. Ask any Martian about what its like to deal with a
powerful
government that has Colonial aims...

** Someone asked about UN HQ: I'd sort of assumed that their On-Earth HQ
was
in Stockholm or Geneva, and off Earth on a place I named New Geneva
(can't
remember where I put it on Nyrath's Map). I figure the UN (like the NAC
Crown) has extended to having an on and off Earth capital. 
I'd think NY was inviable after the American collapse that precipitated
the
NAC creation. So I figured they'd move to Geneva or Stockholm. 

Rob Wrote:

Same reason it generally keeps the peace now--it's in everybody's best 
interests.  Plus they can tip the balance against the one who breaks the

rules, which doesn't take an enourmous force, but a decent one.

** Precisely. And my argument for making them good at covert ops and
intel
is that allows "subtle" manipulation (fits in with Don's thoughts on
their
real agenda) and it doesn't cost huge bucks for large fleets... nor does
it
make the UN's members (read: sometime competitors) as threatened as big
fleets...

And if I remember my Canon history, they didn't keep it completely out
of
the 
Inner Colonies, just the Core.

** Sure, but the Inner Colonies weren't wrecked so I assume the UN could
limit the conflict. 

Beth Wrote:

Due to my blissfully ignorant state of military command structure (I
usually leave it to Derek to scream/harumph/laugh loudly if I wander too
far off course on the topic), how does mixed command structure happen
today
for these things (which is as good a place as any to start for how the
UNSC
does it)?

** Well, if you're a Yank, you don't like or can't put yourself under UN
control (heh) and you tend to be the most experienced and trained in
large
ops so if there is a big one, you end up running the show. ;)

 You obviously get lumps (platoons, battalions whatever) of troops
from the same nation, but I guess the commanders are more
higgledy-piggledy
nation-wise as you go up?

** Generally I believe there is a rotation of officers through command
slots
in UN forces. You command the troops at the time in your command area.
They
of course have their own officers subordinate in theory to your orders
as
commander though I'm not sure it always works the way it should. The
problem
in part is the politicos at the UN have often messed with operations or
with
ROE to handcuff the soldiers badly. This is part of the US problem with
being under UN command.

** I believe it likely that in 2183, independent UN ops are commanded by
UN
people (I believe their sneak and peak and covert ops are all UN
staffed).
Large ops involving other nation states (or even smaller continuing
anti-piracy, anti-drug, etc ops) probably have a mix of officers. Any op
where the UN plays second fiddle in contribution means it won't probably
be
in charge. In this sense, it is now a player as much as it is the
coordinator. It has to apply some discretion to abuses of this power, or
all
the other major powers will have causus belli and it'll be game over UN.
The
UN needs their cooperation and support. I suspect they've outlined in no
uncertain terms to the UN that it need not interfere much in the outer
colonies if it doesn't want its wings clipped... so the UN must approach
this goal slantwise. I assume the Xenowars will give the UN some decent
pretext for action. Some idealists in the UN structure will probably be
interested in safegaurding small colonies from imperialism of the major
powers, and others less noble will use this excuse to try and
Imperialise
them under UN *protection*. 

** It seems likely to me that the UN has a training facility for its
staff
in orbit and/or on off-Earth holdings like New Geneva. No doubt their
are
exchanges between that facility and Sandhurst, Annapolis, RMC, St. Cyr,
Heidelburg, and many other military academies across Terra and in space.
This cross training is probably to the advantage of all - and
coincidentally
to the advantage of the UN in homogenizing humanity (a hidden UN goal)
and
probably in the XenoWars a big plus too. 

** Just my 0.02 as usual (especially when our code base server is
offline...)

Thomas Barclay
Software UberMensch
xwave solutions
(613) 831-2018 x 3008