Re: Way OT :o) Stealth and Countermeasures...

ShldWulf@aol.com wrote:

> >Wrong.  The USAF would love to have a longer range AMRAAM for the
> F-22.
>
> Ah ha! I see the disconnect we're having here. NO the Air Force does
> NOT want
> a longer ranger version of the AMRAAM :)
> What your thinking of is the ALRAAM project. Still in the design and
> test
> phase. Rumor's (from the usual unquotable sources :o) say they are
> leaning
> towards intigrated rams, or hypervelocity motors to power it. As I
> mentioned
> about the Phoenix, long range is tought to do in a small platform.
>
> The AMRAAM does well at what it is designed to do. No the AF doesn't
> want a
> 120nm missile. (We don't need to worry about Bears with nuke cruise
> missiles,
> we figure our bases went up in smoke right after we took off anyway
> :o) The
> ALRAAM is quoted at looking at the 60-90 some odd nm range and is,
> like you
> said, looking to take out both attacking aircraft at longer range but
> at a
> possible role as a TAD asset.
>
> As for the F-22 in a furball, it is a super manueverable fighter. The
> prototypes compare well to the Flanker. The only current prototype to
> out do
> it is the Su-27 Vector thrust/canard demonstator. As for current IR
> short
> range missiles, all current IR trackers are able to lock onto a target
> within
> @120 degree of the nose, and all can be locked on to front aspect
> shots due
> to air friction over the wings. We and the Russians have had them for
> almost
> 20 years now. The problem is at 9-12 miles range unless you can
> preform some
> radical manuvers, SRAAM's are scarily accurate. The problem is, that
> if you
> CAN do some radicals, the likely hood of a miss goes way up as at the
> speeds
> and ranges involved the missile can lose the target in an instant.

The problem is how many SU-27's and MIG-29's you can buy for 1 F-22.  In
a furbal F-22 are not going to have a kill ratio favorable enough to
justify their much higher price.

>
>
> The RCS shapes such as the F-22 does have some advantages in a
> furball. The
> F-22 blended shape makes the camo more effective. It makes less
> shadows and
> light patches which in close combat makes it harder to distingush at
> what
> angle the F-22 is at to you. Also the blended body has much less
> vortex
> generation, which causes those neat but telling contrails to bleed off
> the
> aircraft in a turn.
> IR missile seekers are only good to about 9 miles or so for a shot
> based on
> the air flow over the wings. You can use modern IR sensors, (spotting
> not
> targeting) to spot a target at 20 or so miles, but unless he's a major
> heat
> source it's not enough to lock onto. Which is why the majority of IR
> shot's
> are still tailing hits.
> (I seem to recall the F-14D's sensor can lock the camera onto an IR
> target at
> about 30 some odd miles to track it. Or maybe that was just something
> I read
> in a Tom Clancy book :o)

Current generation IR's are starting to be replaced by next generation
IR's.  Please add about miles to your ranges...  Also, you seem to
forget the both SU-27's and MIG-29's have built in IR sensors that can
hand off their lock on to their IR missiles.

>
>
> The B-2's and F-117's are NOT used for interdiction. They are used as
> strikers only. Neither is an air combat asset. As for IDing their
> CAPs, don't
> count on it. Unless the AC are going in on surgical stikes, (such as
> Bahgdad)
> the sky will be filled with strike packages and CAPs. Figuring out
> which
> one's are escorts and where the AC they are escorting are is going to
> a
> reallly fun job.

Great, but that doesn't change much.  We were lucky in both Iraq and
Serbia.  Why???  Lot's and lot's of good bases nearby.	Saudi Arabia had
far more infrastructure then their airforce ever needed.  Large NATO
airbases in Italy support most of the air opperation in Serbia.  If you
go to fight somewhere where their isn't that much infrastructure, and
these massive attacks are going to be a whole lot smaller.

The airwar over Germany in WWII is very interesting.  Each side
continually developed tactical and equipment counters, counter counters,
counter counter counter, etc.  Do not assume that future opposition will
be as incompetent as the Iraqi's or as outnumbered as the Serb's.  By
the way, how many months did it take build up the assets in Iraq to
crush them so easily?  4 to 5 months, if I remember correctly.

>
>
> Then of course you have to get your fighter THROUGH the mess and have
> time to
> hunt down the target. The CAPs would have a field day.
>
> Randy