SGII Vehicle weapons WAS: SGII: Firing DFFG at infantry...

>1.	I don't think SG actually covers the mechanics for multiple
mount
>weapons (have to check my book), but it is covered under DS.  The main
>benefit of rolling an extra die is the increased chance of a major
impact
>result.  For PSB, you need to take into account that there is always
some
>minor variation in the barrels' alignment, which could be enough to
cause 1
>shot to hit & 1 to miss, especially over long ranges (and also there is
>usually some sort of separation to allow cooling of the barrel).
>Also keep in mind that the mechanics between dispersed fire (multiple
hits)
>& point fire (single hit) are slightly different. 

Sure, that makes sense to a degree, especially for DS.	But how much
variation is there going to be with twin mount lasers or DFFGs or any of
the other heavy weapons over the kind of ranges seen in SG (few hundred
metres MAX)?  I would venture to say none.

What the rules say for heavy weapons is: (from page 33)

"Firer's Dice:	Quality die, Fire Control die.
 Target's Die:	Range die."

The only time multiple (more than 2) dice for a Firer is mentioned is
for
Small Arms.  And as far as I can find, that's the only mention in the
whole
book.  Maybe I'm missing something in the book here, but all my
reasoning
aside, it pretty specifically say that you get one die for quality, and
one
die for your fire control, irrespective of weapon type.  This applies
whether you're firing multiple shot weapons (like an RFAC or GAC) or a
single shot weapon (HEL, DFFG, etc).  There is going to be variation in
the
path of each round in a burst from an RFAC, just as there would be with
shots from the two barrels from a twin-mount DFFG.  But you don't roll
for
each round in the burst separately - you just get variable damage.  Your
"to hit" is determined by the Quality of the firer and the Fire Control
system controlling the weapon/weapons fired for that Action - not by how
many weapons - or how big a burst from a single weapon - are fired.

Again, think of a quad-mount .50 cal in SG:   would you roll four FC die
and four impact die, or one FC die and four impact die.  Over the ranges
seen in SG, I'd think ONE FC die - and this is what the rules seem to
say,
anyway.

>
>2.	Only the weapons listed in the fire combat rules are
specifically
>anti-infantry.  Although the RFAC/1 may be a more powerful version of a
SAW,
>for abstraction and playability.  Also, if you check the PSB about the
IAVR
>I remember it mentioning somewhere that there are 2 settings for the
warhead
>which can be dialed, anti-infantry & anti-armour.

I agree that this kind of thing makes sense (though I couldn't find the
reference, it doesn't really matter 'cause I'm not arguing the point)

Why not RFAC ammo too??

  
>Also keep in mind that vehicle weapons are designed to take out other
>vehicles, which usually means direct impact.  It can be difficult to
get
>through heavy armour using a proximity fuse alone...
>

Of course.

I'll try this one again.

What you said in your original answer to this question was:

"2.	In SG, any vehicle FC weapon rolls d8 impact against infantry,
regardless of the weapon type or class (ground fragmentation, etc)."

I'm afraid that just isn't so...  If the vehicle mounts a Gauss SAW, it
would do d12 impact, just the same as if the SAW was carried by an
infantry
trooper.  A vehicle mounted conventional SAW would do d10 impact.  These
are the regular impacts of the weapons, as given in the chart on page
34.
They wouldn't do LESS damage just because they are mounted on a
vehicle!!!
If anything, mounting a SAW on a vehicle would make them MORE effective.
That's why the preferred mount for a .50 cal is a vehicle pintle,
ringmount, or ground-mount tripod which is weighted down with sandbags
or
something... they are just more effective that way.

The rule on page 40 which says that vehicle weapons do d8 impact is for
the
*heavy weapons* only, and it is rather clear that it is talking about
the
bigger armour killer weapons (DFFG for instance) or the big cannon-type
weapons firing an explosive shell.

What I'm wondering about here is the RFAC and GAG type weapons.  The GAC
weapons' description says "GACs are small calibre weapons with a very
high
rate of fire, using solid slugs propelled at very high velocities".  

These weapons do a d12 impact base damage (or d12x2 for the GAC/2).  Why
would that damage go down against infantry?  It sounds like they are
designed for taking out infantry!  Same thing with the RFAC weapons. 
Like
I said before, a .50 cal mg isn't LESS effective against infantry WHEN
IT
HITS than it is against a truck (and we are talking impact here). 

This is a bit of a grey area 'cause the descriptions of the RFAC and the
GAC weapons are included in the "Heavy Weapons" section on page 29.  If
you
read the rules very strictly, a GAC/1 (which is a large Gauss machinegun
"with a very high rate of fire", would do less damage when vehicle
mounted
than a Gauss SAW (a slightly smaller Gauss machinegun, presumably also
with
a high rate of fire), using the same type of FC, on the same vehicle. 
Does
that make any sense???

For the RFAC, I ask the same question:	why would a .50 cal on a vehicle
do
less damage to infantry than a .30 cal on the same vehicle, using the
same
type of FC system????  With a really strict reading of the rules, a
regular
SAW gets d10 Impact when mounted on a vehicle and fired vs. infantry,
but a
RFAC/1 gets only d8????  That doesn't make sense.

Surely the rule on page 40 makes the most sense applied to weapons like
the
HEL or the HVC, which genuinely would have only limited effectiveness
vs.
dispersed infantry.

Maybe St. Jon could jump in here and comment???

Adrian Johnson
ajohnson@idirect.com