Re: Background?

Ok, just to clarify, I did mean that the majority of people won't make
up their
own background, not everybody.	Also, when I said that Don said that the
basic
mechanics were worked out in a couple of days; he, and I meant the
basics of how
the game works.   What die type(s) are used, how they are used etc.  The
mechanics do not go from concept to finished in a couple of days, but
the
framework is there.  He also said that sometimes you have to chuck the
whole
mechanics framework and start over.  That's not my opinion, that's Don's
experience.

On your reference to D&D not giving you any background well, it's there
if you
want it, and many, many people do.  Ever heard of Greyhawk, Forgotten
Realms, or
Dragonlance?  They are all published D&D backgrounds.  It's as another
poster
said, when you have published background then people from disparate
groups have
a common ground.  One is not superior to the other, it's just easier.

As far as your statement that you play the system and not the
background, maybe
you do.  I've read Point Blank, and it's pretty sparce on the
background.  :-)
However, most people play a game because they like the story it tells. 
Without
a setting for the conflict, (a story if you will) then you just have a
random
fight.	Add a setting and suddenly it's the settlers desparate battle to
stave
of the ravaging hordes of barbarians.  Which makes a better story?

I think a lot of people got into gaming, not to make up their own
stories, but
to be able to in some way take part in a story.  Role playing is this
desire
taken to it's most obvious end.  LARP'ing is this desire taken almost to
the
extreme.  I think wargamers play war games because they've
read/heard/seen
stories about great generals and wonder "Could I do better?".

Young games as you noted are notorious for not deviating from the
established
published army lists and such.	I think that is related to the fact that
they
are kids.  Kids (in general and should) have a very disciplined, and
defined
existence.  Most kids follow the rules because that's what their parents
have
been (or should have been) teaching them.  The rulebooks for Warhammer
say,
"this is what you do", so they do it.  Unless someone tells them
otherwise that
is what will seem "right" to them.  The Rogue Trader book was much less
rigid
and most gamers from that era of 40K remember that their games were much
less
structured.

Bill

UsClintons@aol.com on 09/14/99 08:57:44 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
							      
							      
							      
 To:	  gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU			      
							      
 cc:	  (bcc: Bill Brush/InfSys/Revenue)		      
							      
							      
							      
 Subject: Re: Background?				      


In a message dated 9/14/99 5:10:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
bbrush@rev.state.ne.us writes:

> In general most designers and publishers agree that the mechanics of
the
game
> are not what sells the game, the story sells the game.  GZG games seem
to
be
> a notable exception to that guideline...it is a testament to the
strength
> of the rules that they have done as well as they have.

> (Don Perrin)...started with the background of his new game
>  first, or the mechanics.  He replied that in most of the games he
designed
>  65% of the work went into background.  He said that generally the
basic
>  mechanics can be worked out in a couple of days...

Now, I respect your opinion but...A COUPLE OF DAYS!

IMHO, this is the problem with 99% of the (war)games put out today.  I
don't
play a background, I play a game (system).

>  Also, in general, great books do not necessarily make great games.
Many would, and I assume they would be 'adapted' for use not taken 100%
verbatim.

Again, I respect what you say, but there is one HUGE glaring exception
to all
of what you said.  The GRANDDADDY of all Fantasy games.  The one without
whose success 99% of our Fantasy (as well as Sci-fi) games would not
even
have been created.  I speak of course about "Dungeons and Dragons".

Think about it for a minute.  This game has changed very little over the
years and it has always been sparse to completely nonexistent with
regard to
a pre-established background.  Hell, it takes a one person (the DM)
WORKING
overtime LONG BEFORE the game even begins to BUILD a background so that
OTHERS people can play!  This does not sound like an awful lot of people
need, or even really want to be 'spoon-fed' there background to me and
GW has
wet dreams about selling as many copies of Warhammer as D&D have sold
"Player's Handbook(s)" and "Dungeon Master's Guide(s)"	;-))

Now, I will admit many people have always wanted their backgrounds
pre-engineered, and they always will.  I just think many people have
forgotten why they got into this hobby in the first place.  And much
more
sad, most of the younger players have come to expect to have a
background
dictated to them and would not know what to do if you dropped a copy of
SGII
in their lap (minus the background section).  I don't think it would
even
occur to most of young Warhammer players to deviate from the 'Official
Army
Lists' let alone design an entire background!

I think we may be stifling that key element of what really built this
hobby
to begin with...imagination (all for a box set that costs $69.99)

SC