Re: Sensor Range Question [Evasion]

At 2:35 AM -0700 4/29/99, Thomas Anderson wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Nyrath the nearly wise wrote:
>
>>	The reason most jump drives in SF use fixed jump points
>>	is the reason given in Pournelle's "The making of the
>>	Mote in God's Eye".
>
>i really must read that ...

I though the full text of the novel was in the FAQ for this list ?

>>	 Without the choke points mandated by
>>	fixed jump points there would be few, if any, space battles.
>>	Space is so freaking huge that battles can only happen
>>	by mutual consent, lacking such choke points.
>
>a common theory. i'm not entirely sure i believe it (who woulda thunk
it,
>eh?). basically, the theory is that without special points in space,
there
>can be no battles, as battles have to take point at a certain point
(well,
>within a certain relatively small volume). i have two objections.
>
>firstly, there are plenty of special points other than jump points:
>planets, for instance, and artificial orbiting bodies such as space
>stations. if i have a planet in a system, and an enemy invasion fleet
>jumps in, i think i have a pretty good idea where he's heading, and
that
>there will be a battle there.
>
>secondly, i don't think battles do need special points. the same
theory,
>applied to modern naval or aerial warfare, would predict a lack of
>battles, when in reality there is certainly no shortage. in these
cases,
>the sites of battles are decided by interception: one side will chase
the
>other until they meet, and then they will fight. this, in turn, depends
on
>the relative speed and points of origin of the forces.

contrast the number of land battles over the last 100 years to the
number of naval battles. You'll find that naval battles are *very*
scarce by comparison. In almost all cases I can think of, naval
battles, even deep water interceptions such as Midway, took place in
relationship to a fixed point. This happens even when the objective is
the enemy fleet and not a specific target.

>consider how few major naval or aerial engagements have been fought at
>targets: the battle of Jutland was at Jutland because that's where the
>fleets were when they met, not because someone was going to Jutland.
the
>battle of Britain was fought over a gigantic patch of sky, not around
the
>targets the germans were attacking.

I'm afraid the history does not support this point.

At Jutland the Germans were intercepted on a sortie from a fixed point,
and while passing through a narrow stretch of sea. Although, due to the
strong influence of Mahan's theories, both fleets were trying to find
each other. This is about the exception to the rule. Mahan's theories
are very strong in picking strong points off a map for selection of
defensive points that must be held or taken (similarly, in Go there's a
specific term for a point which both sides should take as soon as
possible, I'm just not looking it upo at 6:30am).

I strongly recommend reading Mahan. His analyses just beg to be applied
to a wargame, or preferrably wargames. It's on my list already.

At Trafalgar, Nelson intercepted the Allied fleet on leaving port, it
justr took a long chase to bring them to battle. At Tsushima, Togo
intercepted the Russians at Tsushima Straight. Check a map, that's a
fixed point if I ever saw one; they Russians were also heading for a
known port (the only one they had left). Ditto for Midway, Intel helped
here. The Solomons campaign is also a good example of combat at

At the Battle of Britain, asides from some ill-advised fighter sweeps
(the defenders had a couple hours less time in the cockpit), the
Germans were going after specific targets (just changing the selection
at ill-advised intervals). The RAF vectored their interceptors in on
the bombers. Admittedly, the fighter sweeps were pure attrition, and
the Germans didn't come out anywhere near asd well as they had too.

In the strategic bombing campaigns of the 20th C., defending fighters
attacked bombers heading to specific targets. There are a few cases of
deception as to the intended destination of the bomber stream, these
attempts frequently caught the defenders working the wrong target. The
individual combats took place all over Europe, but then so were the
targets.

In all cases in air combat. the defending fighters tried to intercept
before the targets. It is far better to shoot down a loaded bomber than
one that has already dropped its bombs.

Michael Carter Llaneza
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1991-1950
Devolution is very real to me.
http://216.101.185.88
Whenever I hear the "Odd Couple" theme, I get this image of Dennis
Rodman borrowing Marge Schott's toothbrush.