Re: Dirtside II FMA Enhancement.

Okay here we go again:

Andrew wrote in response to Brian Bell
>Nope. Jim's enhancements with my substitution (he's just agreed to
>this!) of a D6 for target armour.....

It's not a substitution, its a fix of a downright error! I intended to
keep
the damage resolution as close to the original rules as possible, Andrew
caught the flaw where I had mis-calculated a D10 instead of a D6

Andrew wrote:

>After much thought and headahche this might work better.
    That's only really needed if you and your opponent decide to add the
dice together which takes longer. I would just choose the option of
picking
the highest dice each time, which I think is quicker and gets rid of the
bell curve, which I dislike. But each to their own... :-)

I am leaning more to the static armor method myself. It conforms better
with
the original DS2 method and allows the use of the tied dice critical
hits.
Keeping a large weapon from doing multiple hits dosen't reflect the chit
draw system, as I said I have drawn three Mobilities and two systems
down on
the same tank. Effective, but anti-climatic.

Besides, adding damage dice together dosen't take that long especially
when
compared to a static number, and rolling multiple dice and picking the
highest gets into bizarre exponential and/or inverse exponential
statistics
that I really don't have the inclination to figure out and compare to
the
original DS2 chit draw system.

I think we can agree to two systems for number figuring, depending on
what
rules your group considers more accurate. The first is the added damage
dice
vs armor level x 3 (Static Armor method) This would use the tied
criticals I
proposed in my previous post. The second Quick-and-Dirty method would be
to
roll dice for all levels and choose the highest, although slightly less
accurate to special hits, and possibly statisticly (I'd like to hear
from
some of the more intense propeller-heads out there about that, it may be
more accurate, but we wont KNOW until someone figures it out.)

Andrew wrote in response to Brian Bell
>(The diffrences between the original accelerator and the current FMA
enhancement)
>*    allowing for special chit draws at one per shot, not per weapon
size
>class;

I don't agree with this. Two main reasons
Reason 1 :
*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
Something to think about:-
    One roll of the attack dice does not necessairily mean a single
shot,
just a single attack. The shortest time I have ever seen for any Sci-Fi
wargame turn is ten seconds, and a tank that is in the open for all of
it's
move may be firing the whole time, not to mention those autocannon
weapons
that have cyclic rates better expressed in rounds per second! DS2 has a
variable time length so we cannot express exactly how many times a
vehicle
is hit per attack. With this in mind it is perfectly reasonable to
assume
that a tank targeted by a large weapon (may not be a large bore size but
a
high ROF on a single action**) may certainly take crippling hits to
mobility, sensors, AND take enough raw damage to give it a damaged
result in
the same attack. (I have had this happen to me twice, and on my enemies
three times. so it's not as rare as you might think.)

** Even a large bore may use cannister or beehive ammo to cover the
target
in shot, and let us not forget the power of explosive rounds. Remember
any
classed weapon (1 through 5) that can be used Anti-Infantry (All but HKP
and
GMS) are assumed to be of either rapid fire, explosive, or gargantuan
shotgun nature.

The power of abstraction - Anything is justifiable!
*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*

Reason 2:
    More imporatntly, this dosen't reflect the chit draw system.
Multiple
criticals are definately possible, not to mention sometimes irritating
(The
5 mobility his I drew after firing a MDC 5 at short range. That has only
happened to me once, but it is possible) .

***Point of gameplay-
Systems Down AND Immobilized who needs to worry about a damaged result?
Anyone with Backup Systems and/or Armored Engineering Vehicles, that's
who.
Backup systems can repair systems down but not immobilized or Damaged.
That
means a tank effected by all three counters will only be able to bring
it's
cannons back on line at a reduced accuracy without outside help,
severely
hampering most tank operations, even when acting as an unwilling field
emplacement. I use an optional rule that an AEV must roll once for every
systems effect on the damaged vehicle, so the tank that takes all three
specials may end up with any one two or still struggle with all three
systems effects.

As to Brian Bell's query about the DS2 Acceelerator: That was the post
that
I started working with in the first place. I noticed almost immediately
that
the DFFG lost 40% of its chit draw firepower using a D12 instead of a
D20
(or 2 x D10). I use DFFG's in my urban combat tanks, and those weapons
are
expensive enough as it is, if they lose ANY firepower I may be forced to
re-think wether or not to simply artillery shell any urban environment I
come across, and use infantry alone to clear individual buildings left
standing. Also the HEL damage die was the one that should have been
applied
against Abalative armor not standard armor, but the rulebook places the
abalative impacts before standard impacts so a degree of confusion is
understandable (I have had my own on this topic the D6 instead of my
mis-calculated D10 for armor).
    Another thing I endeavored to do was to keep the damage dice
resolution
constant for all damage resolutions, from infantry to artillery and
nuclear
to biochemical, by keeping the dice equavalent to a portion of the chits
in
the pot (25% D4, 50% D6, 75% D8, 100% D10) so that anything I didn't
actually cover in the text could be figured from my methods.

Rant Rant Rant.... We WILL solve this in our lifetime! Actually we have
been
making wonderful progress for backwards engineering a rule. When I was
in
high school it would take us one, maybe two all-weekend sessions of
nothing
but arguing to get this much done. I don't think that we have exchanged
nearly as many hours, and certainly not raised blood pressure as high.

Anyways I am looking forward to input on this post, I'd like to hear the
comments, criticisms, compliments, paytests,ect. of those other than
Andrew
and myself, I feel as though we are the only two that play DS2 or want a
dice impact system. I would really like to hear from someone at GZG so
we
can better get a handle on the spirit of the rules (Other than have a
good
time), I think that we are getting down to the point where which hair we
split and where might be better defined by the originaly intended effect
of
the rules.

______
Final note:
I read someone wondering why HKPs arent effected by reactive armor.
Here's
why:

    HKP's aren't effected by reactive armor due to the fact that they
don't
use a shaped charge. Modern Anti-Tank shaped charge weapons work 
throwing a
cone of metal to create a hole in the armor into which the warhead
releases
an incindary compound into the chamber behind the armor it hit (ammo
engines
cockpit, ext.) and igniting the compund destroying the tank from the
inside
out (Goes in like a dime, comes out like a financial institution.)
Reactive
armor prematurely detonates the warhead before it hits the armor
protecting
the chamber and spraying the compund over the outside of the tank where
it
is least effective. Hyper Kenetic Penetrators are just that, giant APDU
tipped javelins that spear the offending tank. Larger HKPs have a
delayed
fuse explosive that detonates the javelin once it is stuck inside the
tank.
Reactive armor dosen't detonate the javelin fast enough to make it avoid
hitting the tank anyways, penetrating the critical armor and spearing
the
components behind it.

If anyone at GZG disagrees with my PSB I'd like to know.