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Re: FT: FB2 Preview - Obi Wan Tuffley

From: "Jared E Noble" <JNOBLE2@m...>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:58:29 -1000
Subject: Re: FT: FB2 Preview - Obi Wan Tuffley

>The rules currently written allow a Thrust 4 or higher ship to use Main
>Drive, Rotate, Thruster Push, to get an total vector change of more
than the
>Main Drive rating.  IMHO, it doesn't make sense to allow this. 
>Main Drive and Thruster Push to be executed together, without an
>Rotation, is a simple way to fix this.  Anyone DISagree?

A nice simple fix that eliminates the one problem, at a small loss of
flexibility.  This came up once before with a post about a 'flip-turn' -
MD 8
burn straight forward, rotate 90 degrees, thruster push 3, for a total
of 11 - obviously outside the envelope. The following is a re-post of my


The problem with these maneuvers 'outside the envelope' is an incorrect
assumption of what valid orders are.  While the rules allow silly
constructions like this, common sense does not.  I will try to point out
how common sense in orders will alleviate this difficulty.

If we assume you have a main drive of 8, with thrusters of 4, this would
seem to imply that my applying the full power on your main drive over
course of the turn will change your velocity by 8 in the direction of
facing, right?	And that burning your thrusters over the full course of
turn could push you perpendicular to your facing a maximum of 4. (again,
keeping with the magical handwaving to erase the fact that it's really
half that, but at least staying with the same inconsistency everyone

*Concurrent Maneuvers*
Orders can be written in any sequence.	That's fine and dandy.	However,
is not reasonable to assume that a MD8, TP3,PS3 will change my vector by
in the direction of my initial facing. Why?  Because the MD8 burn takes
entire length of the turn! Even if you assume that rotations occur
and will 'give' them to me for free at the end (or even beginning) of my
movement, the PS3 requires another 3/4 turn to execute.  Now of course
everyone is screaming at me that things happen concurrently, not
all at once, but they would HAVE to be sequenced to achieve the above

*Vectors over time*
 I contend that since the MD burn is applied over the course of
you will need to break the vectors down further. and apply them in
increments. Move MD4, PS1.5 execute the turn, move the remaining MD4,
PS1.5.	now look at where you are at.  They are NOT the same location. 
the 'massively broken' hack we began with the velocity is +11 in the
direction of original facing.  In the second the velocity +6 (6.04
actually) in a direction about 30 degrees to port from the original

To make it more accurate (for a continuous burn, smooth rotation over
course of the turn) - Divide both the MD and Pushes by the points of
change+1, and perform the maneuver in those discreet steps, turning one
facing between each movement.  So for the above, we have 4 segments of
1, and 4 segments of PS 3/4.  Applying these as described gives a
change of right near 7 in a direction of 30 deg to port from original
facing.  Note that what we have done is a simple matter of 'Successive
approximations'.  Sure calculus would be more 'correct', but why bother
you are moving minis on the table anyway - turn and move.  The point is
that it is the assumptions of what are valid orders that are causing
of these abuses.

*Sequenced Maneuvers*
OK, with that said, you say that you WANT to do sequenced maneuvers? 
with me.  But remember that the sequence cannot be any longer in 'time'
that one turn.	I propose adding a single character to the normal order
writing conventions - "/".  This separates sequenced movement. 
with the above example, you want to burn MD4/TP1/PS3+MD4, you can't.
But you could do MD4/TP1/PS2+MD4.  Do you see why?  The first step in
sequence is MD4, that takes half the turn. The next is TP1, which I am
counting here as instantaneous (partly to ease explanation, but that is
how it is being used), finally the last step is PS3+MD4 (first example,
and the PS3 takes 3/4 turn to execute - BZZZZ, sorry, but your time has
expired) or PS2+MD4 (second example, and it fits within the remaining

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