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Re: [FT] Hardened Systems

From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@t...>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:27:31 +0100
Subject: Re: [FT] Hardened Systems

Schoon wrote:

> >Standard system:
> >
> >Treshold:		Chance to lose...
> >		1 system	2 systems
> >1st		  27.8%     2.8%
> >2nd		  49.4%    19.8%
> >3rd		  40.1%    52.2%
> >
> >Hardened systems:
> >
> >Treshold:		Chance to lose...
> >		1 system	2 systems
> >1st		     0% 	      0%
> >2nd		  27.8%      2.8%
> >3rd		  49.4%     19.8%
> >
> Thanx for the corrections in the %-ages. I was sorta winging it.

Yes :-)
> However, the reduction from 27% to 0, and the 49% to 27%, for the

> two thresholds are the important ones in my eyes. 

For the same cost as 2 hardened systems you could get *3* standard ones
if you use the 50% penalty; this gives you a 7% probability of having
fewer systems than the hardened ship after the first treshold check and
an 11% prob. of having fewer systems after the second; the risks to lose
*all 3" systems are 0.4% (vs 0) after the first check and 8.8% (vs.
after the second. The difference here is pretty minor - especially if
count the ships out after the second treshold as you seem to do below 

> Usually after the  second check, a ship is not much longer for this

I'd say that after the third check - after the second, it still tends to
have a reasonable amount of fight left. YMMV, of course, but this is
extremely important for hardened systems - after the second treshold is
where they get their chance of getting even.

>  Even ignoring  that, the 50% seems correct.

Try it out for yourself. With 50% extra Mass for hardened systems, a
with all its systems hardened usually passes its 3rd treshold check on
about the same time the standard ship passes its second, and the
ship usually don't have to take a third check before it destroys the
hardened ship.

With 25% extra Mass, the two are so closely balanced that things like
maneuvering, random initiative (worth approx. 10% extra firepower in any
turn, at least in smaller battles - I haven't kept detailed enough notes
in bigger battles to know) and plain luck (Teske Fields or Kochte
your choice :-) decides the outcome instead.

To get those annoying random and skill factors out of the test, put two
ships - one with a standard beam armament, one with all its beams and
hardened; both ships to have the same hull size, engines, hull integrity
and armour - in fixed positions so they can fire all their weapons at
another, and use simultaneous fire all the time. Use real dice for
and treshold checks, though :-) Run this simulation ten times or so, and
see who wins the most. Do it for both 50% and 25% mass penalties for
hardened systems.

For the record, I didn't do this just ten times. Yes, I know I'm
perverse... but it was a lot more interesting than the lectures I
attended (at least physically) at the time :-) And just like you, I
didn't believe the results at first.

> Lets say for the moment that 25% is correct. How does the rounding >

Add all hardened systems together, then round up. Even 0.25 should round
up - otherwise you're getting the hardening for free, which you

> Balance wise, I think that Hardened Systems need to be slightly less
> effective than their normal counterparts, or else everyone will use
> else.

Balance-wise, they should ideally be exactly as effective as their
counterparts... if they're *less* effective, I see no reason to use
The few times when they save me from really rotten luck won't hide the
many times they lose me the battle instead <shrug>


Oerjan Ohlson

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry

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