RE: [SG2] APFCs in Stargrunt

Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty: 
> Someone mentioned putting APFC charges on the top deck of a tank to
defend
> against top attack missles. Given that APFC is primarily an
anti-personnel
> system, and the only personel usually on the top deck of a tank are
the
> tank's crew, I can see said crew objecting to the installation of
systems
> that could kill them. (If you're riding in an open hatch when
side-mounted
> APFCs go off, it's noisy and uncomfortable. If a top-mounted charge
goes,
> it's messy and fatal...and simply ordering people to always ride
buttoned
> up won't really work, people being people.)

Well, I'd work on an APFC for the top deck that can fire in such a 
pattern as to exclude a small cone around the hatches. Make the crew 
safe unless it was out doing something.... and the system should be 
off then...plus the IFF comments mean it could not fire if a 
commander was in the way....but maybe another charge near the back of 
the tank could fire without hitting him. I think upward APFC charges 
are viable, if side ones are.	
 
> > The problem with this is if the system uses systems like pulsed 
> > doppler radar (looking for the doppler shift of a moving target), IR

> > (looking for the heat of a valid target), or shape (using visual 
> > shape recognition) and requires more than one of these to 
> > corroborate, I can see modern infantry evolving equipment around
that 
> > - IR masking battle dress (esp those in partial armour or full 
> > armour), a ghillie suit (to break up your human shape, and some form

> > of portable battlefield radar jammer. Also, I'd be sure to evolve a 
> > way where I could throw an arty shell or a man portable attack of 
> > some type at the target vehicle and get it to detonate its APFC 
> > belts. I'd do this repeatedly to strip the tank. Maybe fake pop up 
> > silhouettes with IR signature packs. That would set off all three of

> > the above systems.	
> >
> 
> And while you're setting up these complex systems, the target tank is
> either charging to the attack or has moved away, forcing you to start
> setting up somewhere else. You're better off just trying to kill the
tank,
> and stay out of APFCs (limited) range.

Well, maybe on the decoy side I'd agree. But having IR masking and 
shape masking (the latter of which has been a camo staple for a long 
time) seems normal for future infantry. Future IW should be capable 
of selectively jamming a vehicles doppler radar for these systems 
(not to mention fire control). 

> In an ambush situation, some of these systems would be useful - esp.
IR
> shielding, ghillie suits, jammers. In a fluid combat situation, they'd
be
> less useful - especially if, after the shooting starts, tank crews put
> their APFCs on twitch mode - if it moves, looks vaugely human and
doesn't
> have the right IFF, wipe it out. Less accurate target recognition, but
> greater security...

Sure, and potential for accidents. All I want to suggest is that 
there are reasons to be careful with this system - it (like anything) 
is not the be all end all technology. There are counters (if you have 
them or can use them), and there are risks if you put your APFC in 
promiscuous (hit anything that event whiffs of danger) mode.   

> > Also, did you envision an APFC able to fire more than once per
round?
> 
> Yes. It's whole racks of charges, on all four sides of a vehicle, with
> only a couple needed, probably, to blanket any given area with a
lethal
> flecette load. Having multiple firing - even from the same side -
seems a
> reasonable assumption.

Perhaps. But perhaps you also have a lag between firings programmed 
in so that the falling bodies of the last lot or a wounded guy trying 
to haul ass don't cause it to fire again.... maybe this translates to 
one firing per round. Alternately, if a unit moves into range, gets 
hit by APFCs, and routes back or manually retreats, it should get hit 
again. I think eventually this will wear down your APFC defenses, as 
will getting shot at a lot. 

I suspect in real life there might be good reasons not to load your 
vehicle with piles of charges on strips - what about a GAC firing at 
your vehicle, as it sits in them middle of your infantry? It might 
set off some of the APFCs! What about the whack of a non-penetrating 
artillery shell (or even a near miss)! It might be enough to set off 
the APFC.  Anyway, maybe we'll have these. Probably will. But I 
suspect they will evolve doctrine that limits them, and the 
implementaiton will have limited firings. 

 
/************************************************
Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup
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