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RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@b...>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:26:55 -0600
Subject: RE: Loactions of Stars (was RE: [FT] Size of "Countries" in FT)

On Friday, 27 November 1998 16:44, Thomas Barclay
[] wrote:
> Moody, spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> > Yep - 50ly gives us about 1100 stars (that is individual stars -
> > systems come in packets of multiple stars).  I'm assuming that the
> > most
> > habitable planets occur around the F G K series stars, this list
> > shows F G K stars.	This is not a complete list - I ignored multiple
> > systems where the primary is too bright (O B A classes) and other
> > systems for various reasons.  Consider these a minimum number system
> > with possible inhabited worlds..
> I can see penal, accidental, or military colonies in these systems. I 
> can see research outposts. I can even see a group of dissidents being 
> set here (to die quietly) by a host government.  

Lots and lots of resource systems (asteroid mining systems, etc).  Many
of these systems will be the ones wholly owned by corporations.  Also,
military systems, strategically placed between more inhabited systems.

> Do a lot of these stars have 'more science-ish' names like DM +18 456 
> or something like that? If so, is there a place where both the common 
> and scientific name can be found? (easily)

Yes, and no.  Sorry, too much of the astrophysicist in me coming out

Most stars have no real name (like Sirius, Deneb, etc), just a catalog
number.  Most of the bright stars that do have proper names are Arabic.
Most common names are based upon the position of the star within the
original Greek constellations -- which we refer to using Roman
translations of the Greek names (ain't astronomy fun?). Many bright
stars lying within constellations have Bayer designations using the
Greek alphabet (from Alpha to Omega, generally by decreasing brightness
- eg Alpha Centauri is the brightest star in the Centarus constellation,
Beta Centauri is the next brightest, etc) and/or a Flamsteed number
(beginning with 1, based on position in its constellation from left to
right as seen from Earth's northern hemisphere) and the genitive of the
Latin constellation. (For example, the star "Keid" in Eridanus is more
commonly known in the United States as Omicron2 or 40 Eridani A, where
the number 2 indicates that there is another star in Eridanus designated
Omicron1 and where the following letter "A" designates this star as the
"primary" or most luminous star of a multiple star system.) In addition,
many variable stars are also designated with capital letters (e.g., R or
RR) in front of the Latin genitive for the nearest constellation. 

Stars are also designated with catalogue numbers. While some begin with
the cataloguer's last name (e.g., Ross or Wolf), most use just the first
letter of the name(s), or some other abbreviation, to save space.
Examples include: 

AC-Alvan Clark	
ADS-Aitken Double Star	
BS,HR-Bright Star/Harvard Record  
DM: BD/B;CoD/CD/C;CP(D)/P-Bonner/Cordova/Cape Photographic
FK5-Fifth Fundamental  
G,GD,GR-Giclas/white Dwarf/Red	
Gl,GJ,NN-Gliese/& Jahreiss/Not Numbered  
HD-Henry Draper  
L,LB,LDS,LFT,LHS,LP,LTT,BPM-Luyten/faint Blue/Double
Star/Five-Tenths?(1955)/Half Second/Palomar/Two-Tenths/Bruce Proper
PPM-Position & Proper Motion  
SAO -Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory  
San,SS,Steph -Sanduleak/Stephenson
USNO-U.S. Naval Observatory  
V -Variable star or Vyssotsky  
VB-Van Biesbroeck  

So, that star labled p Eridani is also known as:
HR486* (from the Havard record bright star catalog)
Gl66A	(from the Gliese dwarf catalog)
Hip7751 (from the Hipparcos data)
C-56 329
P-56 329
according to what catalog you are looking at.  Unfortunately, there is
no really good cross reference of names between catalogs.  The best you
could do is look up a star according to RA and decl in each catalog.

However, I do have a small cross reference list (a couple of hundred
stars) somewhere.  I'll have to find it.

> Now, this data is 85% of what I've been looking for lately. You 
> wouldn't happen to have (or be able to easily generate) a bunch of 
> XYZ coords wrt earth (since this is I assume what dist was calc'd 
> from). That makes calc'ing dist from one to another possible. 

The CHView data has this already in it.  Snag the file for
all stars within 50ly of Terra.
> > > Does this agree with what Jon T posted today or last night?
> > 
> > Indeed, it fits quite well.
> Good! With permission, I may use some of your data (if you can get me 
> XYZ) on my up-and-coming UN Web Page. I want to list all the on Earth 
> and off Earth holding of each of the major powers. 

Go for it!  Its all from CHView, which is all from the Hipparcos data,
which is all public domain.  Ain't science grand?

You can get the actual Hipparcos data at
However, IIRC, the raw data approaches 60mb in size.  There's some neat
search utilities that runs through the web that allows you to sort
through the data.

I am in the process of hacking together a CHView file of the main worlds
for the main powers, incorporating your list.  I figure the main world
will be habitable (mostly around G stars), then do some close packing of
spheres to determine what stars each might assert control over.
> Agreed. I think the drive they are looking at is something which 
> allows you to come out where you want, to go any particular distance 
> (no max stated) and whose time in jump may or may not be proportional 
> to distance. Not jump gates. But Jon T is unlikely to ever give more 
> than a suggestion here.... since lots of folk use lots of different 
> ideas.  

Right.	Not supprising, really, its about what I expected from him.

> > Nope, my UPP as determined by Greg Porter at GenCon96.
> If I had to guess, mine would probably be 786BB8. But that is just a 
> guess. 

I have the UPP test from GenCon somewhere - let me dig it up.

> > > (I love Traveller!). 
> > 
> > Me too...
> Play much?

We have a campaign on temp hold right now: we've lost three players and
it need restructuring.	I'm about to start up an Ars Magica game, then
back to Trav.

>and a source of comedy for all. :)

Aren't all Vargrs?

>  "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
>  it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
>  -Bjarne Stroustrup

Y'know, this is so true?

vargr1							 UPP-8D9B85
---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."

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