Re: [DS] Tank designs was Re: [ds] Ogres

	Howdy!

On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, John M. Atkinson wrote:

> OK, let's compare resource investment.  If you can kill a JS-II with
an
> 88mm gun, then why do you need anything bigger?  How many JS-IIs can
> USSR build for cost of one Maus.  Ever hear of diminishing returns? 

	The 12.5cm is one hell of a mobile support weapon.  Good against
tanks, fortifications, etc.  Ever hear of test-bed prototypes?	We are,
after all, talking about a vehicle where only two were completed (the
second one arguably so).  Boebingen was in no way a waste of resources,
as
they had damn little to work with.

> Maus went past that line.  Long way past that line.  Of course, IMHO,
> building more Panthers would have been best way to use all the
resources
> that went into Tigers, King Tigers, Mauses, other "Supertanks", et al.

	The MAUS was an excellent test bed for ideas.  The Allies were
investing materials into this area as well.  Armour was still coming out
of its infancy.

> Yes, they were.  Or rather, Porche was an idiot, and Hitler a bigger
> one.	You have to cross bridges during COMBAT operations.  Remember
> Battle of Bulge?  Lead German Kampfgruppe was stopped because stupid
> commander left his bridging unit behind (Would have "slowed down"
> offensive) and the US Army's "Damned Engineers" dropped the bridges in
> front of him.  Ooops.  Now, let's imagine he had his bridging unit,
and
> a company of Mauses.	He's still stopped dead because it requires a
rail
> bridge.  Ooops again.  Maus is fine idea if you assume there are
working
> railheads from your country to enemy capital, with an agreement not to
> destory or damage rails at all, and not to shoot at trains as they
> unload this Maus.  How long does it take to unload?  Of course, much
> cheaper and easier to drop 5 inch rocket off P-47, but that applies to
> all tanks.  Except that if I drop a 5 inch rocket on a force of Pz
IVs,
> there are some left.	I drop on Maus, and the only one you got is
dead. 
> Mass production is good thing.

	The MAUS was NOT designed for operation in the West.  Most of
the
terrain that was fought over *had* no bridges, and the MAUS was able to
ford most small rivers (small being the active word here).  The MAUS was
a
support vehicle designed with the realities of the Eastern theatre, i.e.
bad terrain, long range, etc.

	Armoured trains (check out both of Sawodny's books) often had
cars
that would carry tanks.  The trains did NOT drive into combat and unload
the tanks.  The tanks off-loaded behind friendly lines and moved up to
the
combat lines.

	For Porche's ideas behind his designs, check out Jentz's book
(mentioned previously).  As for Hitler, well he WAS an idiot...

	Laterish!

	Ken