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Re: Low-Tech Forces in DSII

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:37:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Low-Tech Forces in DSII

Oerjan spake thusly upon matters weighty: 
> > Note: Range (Max Effective) of Longbow - 200+ yards. Range of some 
> > crossbows - as 525 meters.
> But why are you comparing maximum *effective* range for longbows with
> maximum *absolute* range for crossbows? Their recorded *effective*
> seem to have been pretty much the same - 200 meters at most. 

Depends on the bow, depends on the crossbow. I've seen quite a few 
crossbows effective 225-325 meters. Many bows aren't effective past 
> (The longest recorded *bow* shot is over 700 meters, using a very
> arrow and a Turkish composite bow. This occured in a range-shooting
> contest in the 17th or 18th century, with lots of European diplomats
> present, so the range was probably accurately measured :-/)

Wow. I wonder what the longest recorded crossbow shot is? (Or 
ballista... that would probably hit even PA). 
> > And I have heard tell of crossbows passing 
> > a shot through a greave, the leg of the target, through the greave 
> > again, through the horse, through the other greave, and into the 
> > other leg.....
> This is the first time I've heard about this being done by a crossbow.
> Giraldus Cambrensis tells this about an early Welsh bow (not a true
> longbow, this being in the early 12th century), though the Norman
> hit had mail leg protection instead of greaves.

This was for some late Medeival or early Renaissance battle. It was a 
statistical improbability I am quite sure. 
> > 2. They'd retreat before you, then ambush you, kill a guy or two, 
> > then fall back, (maybe lose that ambush, but they can spare it)
> Of course. But then you wouldn't have a DSII battle at all - it'd be
> better suited for a SGII fight, or an FMA skirmish.

Agreed. DS2 is not the venue. Even SG2 is questionable in this role.
> The heavies crossbows are siege weapons, usually requiring supports to
> fired at all and averaging one shot per minute at the very best... You
> might be able to get one shot off from a prepared ambush site, but not
> much more than that.

I'd agree. But some goats foot models could do good damage to 200m. 
Sure your siege arbalests require a rest, and the others that don't 
are still heavy (14+ pounds - like a heavy rifle). But in the context 
of a DS2 turn, they may get off multiple shots (which of course 
wouldn't be represented that way in DS2 any more than individual 
rifle shots are). Ambush would be the better deployment, or static 
> > 12+ if using a Chokyuno repeating crossbow. (Chinese)
> The repeating crossbow bolts are *very* light, relying more on poison
> than on penetration.

I didn't know they used poison. But I do acknowledge they were a 
light bolt. Similar to some very light bows (some of the very early 
ones) in penetration. 

 It is also an utter bitch to reload after you've
> emptied the magazine (or at least the one I tried was).

I don't know. I haven't touched one, but it didn't look that hard.... 
maybe its much harder than it seems on paper (wouldn't be the first 

 Comparing a
> cho-ku-no with a longbow is similar to comparing an SMG to an assault
> rifle IMO (not that I've fired neither SMGs nor assault rifles <g>) -

That is a good comparison. 
Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup

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