Re: Low-Tech Forces in DSII

Thomas Barclay wrote:

> > I'd say "draw 1 chit in close combat per 2 elements, AFTER the
high-tech
> > force has fired". These guys are trying to get within spear or sword
> > reach of enemies armed with assault rifles/SMGs, hand grenades etc.
Since
> > DSII assaults are fought out at ranges up to 200 meters, there's no
way
> > they'd be as effective as normal high-tech line infantry. Cost? Not
sure,
> > but I don't think I'd want to pay more than 1 point.
> 
> Note: Range (Max Effective) of Longbow - 200+ yards. Range of some 
> crossbows - as 525 meters.

But why are you comparing maximum *effective* range for longbows with
maximum *absolute* range for crossbows? Their recorded *effective*
ranges
seem to have been pretty much the same - 200 meters at most. 

(The longest recorded *bow* shot is over 700 meters, using a very light
arrow and a Turkish composite bow. This occured in a range-shooting
contest in the 17th or 18th century, with lots of European diplomats
present, so the range was probably accurately measured :-/)

> And I have heard tell of crossbows passing 
> a shot through a greave, the leg of the target, through the greave 
> again, through the horse, through the other greave, and into the 
> other leg.....

This is the first time I've heard about this being done by a crossbow.
Giraldus Cambrensis tells this about an early Welsh bow (not a true
longbow, this being in the early 12th century), though the Norman rider
hit had mail leg protection instead of greaves.

[On Zulus]

> Of course, if instead of fighting the brits on the savannah, the bow 
> armed enemy faded into the jungles in skirmish formation 
> 1. You wouldn't kill many at once as you'd have no large taget to 
> put your superior FP on

Which is when the Brits probably start hitting villages instead of enemy
troops :-/

> 2. They'd retreat before you, then ambush you, kill a guy or two, 
> then fall back, (maybe lose that ambush, but they can spare it)

Of course. But then you wouldn't have a DSII battle at all - it'd be far
better suited for a SGII fight, or an FMA skirmish.
 
> > In DSII, 1" = 100 meters. Unless the bows and crossbows you're
talking
> > about have modern composite bows and very advanced sights, there is
no
> > way an archer or crossbowman can hit and do any real damage at 3-400
> > meters.
> 
> If using heaviest crossbows, they can. But more likely a 2" range is 
> called for. 

The heavies crossbows are siege weapons, usually requiring supports to
be
fired at all and averaging one shot per minute at the very best... You
might be able to get one shot off from a prepared ambush site, but not
much more than that.

>  Within DSII close assault range (2", ie 200 meters in real life)
> > their weapons can have some effect - but even a trained archer can't
do
> > much better than 12 arrows per minute; a crossbowman with a light
> > crossbow might manage 3.
> 
> 12+ if using a Chokyuno repeating crossbow. (Chinese)

The repeating crossbow bolts are *very* light, relying more on poison
than on penetration. It is also an utter bitch to reload after you've
emptied the magazine (or at least the one I tried was). Comparing a
cho-ku-no with a longbow is similar to comparing an SMG to an assault
rifle IMO (not that I've fired neither SMGs nor assault rifles <g>) -
shorter range, far worse penetration, somewhat better rate of fire until
the magazine runs out.

Later,

Oerjan Ohlson
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry