Re: [fh] nac vexilliology was Re: Awards and ANthems(and now some background) [OT] [HIST]

On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Jared E Noble wrote
> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> >> Thomas spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> >> >	the us
> >> > flag being modified by the replacement of the starry quadrant
with a
> union
> >> > jack, of course
> >> I like the idea for the us flag.
> >
> >i nicked it from an episode of 'sliders'. the one, predictably, where
the
> >british won the war of independence.
> 
> You didn't have to tell us, we were content to give you credit...

being an englishman, i have an overdeveloped sense of honour :-)

> >what if the former usa (minus cal-tex) has been broken up into more
> >manageable chunks, like new england, the southeast, the midwest, etc.
do
> >these areas, larger than a state, have their own symbols? do such
> >divisions even exist in the american worldview?
> 
> The division of into more manageable territories seems very plausible
(if
> you can swallow the initial 'US reabsorbed by Commonwealth' business -
but
> that's the assumption were operating under...)

i was thinking about this. if eire was reabsorbed into the uk, 'greater
britain' would have a population of ~80 million. if the usa lost cal-tex
and a few intervening states for good measure, it might end up with a
population of ~160 million (2/3 of current). if the us could be split
into
just two parts, the uk would be the dominant partner in the commonwealth
- a situation i believe the crown would aim for. how about north and
south, a division that pretty much exists already? 'no sah, ah am a
virginian' comes repeatedly to mind.

> >brazil - astral globe (off current flag) etc
> 
> Just be sure to omit the 'Ordem e Progresso' banner (Order & Progress
- not
> what Brasil (at least in a governmental sense) has been known
for...Most
> Brazillians I know laugh at the idea.  I lived there for a couple of
years,
> and got a bit of a feel for people's opinions...

true. we may have to go further - the whole point of the starmap on the
flag is that that was the configuration of the sky the night the emperor
abdicated and the republic was established. i think it's a sheer stroke
of
genius as far as flag design goes, but it's also not very nac-friendly.

> >parliament - portcullis
> 
> As in 'Barring the way of progress'?	What is the source of the
porticullis
> symbol for parliament?

it's the current symbol. it's on the back of the british 1 penny coin,
amongst other things. i am unsure of its origins, but it has been in use
since for ever - wars of the roses at least.

> Sounds good!	What precedents are there for rendering the symbols onto
> other color fields, and what might be resonable uses of differing
field
> colors?  (Gov't branches, different commonwealth member states,
military
> service v. civilian or police use, etc...)

traditionally, britain has been pretty lax about the use of state
symbols
by private individuals - it's not a crime to burn the flag here (afaik),
unlike in some backward totalitarian regimes i could mention ... :-)

i think the point of these symbols is that they could be used on pretty
much any background - pace heraldic constraints in formal situations -
according to whatever was handy. if you want to put a nac logo on the
flag
of the betelguese trading scouts, then obviously it's going to have to
be
on a green field. if you want it on the flag of oxford university, it's
going to be a dark blue field. etc.

Tom