Gun laws etc / Was Re: SV: [SG2] You'll never take me alive, coppers:

At 10:39 23/09/98 +0300, you wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Niall Gilsenan wrote:
>
>> Since guns aren't widely available over here (believe it or not!) the
level
>> of crime is statistically near the lowest in the world.
>
>I would be very hesitant to make such a simplistic cause-effect
>connection. There are examples, e.g. Switzerland, that fly in the face
of
>such an assumption.

Simplistic, true.  Its not a statement of fact though since it is my own
opinion and I'm not forcing it on anyone else. They all have their own
opinions in any case so I'm not going to try and change it.

The net effect of strict gun controls here is that it is unusual for
anyone
in this country to be murdered by guns.  People being stabbed to death
is
far more common (although still rare).	Of course a lot more people die
in
car accidents over here than are murdered every year.  Unfortunately we
need knives to cut things and cars to drive places but as far as I can
see
guns are there to kill and with no other practical purpose.  We don't
need
to hunt to catch food anymore. Unless its been a particularly bad day at
the supermarket..

Therefore (IMO) the less guns available the better.  Give them to people
who may need them like the army or police but not to the general
populace.
If everyone needs a gun to live safely then it seems there may be
something
fundamentally wrong.  Anyway since neither you nor I make the laws in
our
respective countries then its pretty much irrelevant to be arguing over
it.
 Its not the right forum either.

>>  So maybe its a
>> luxury we have as opposed to other countries with liberal gun laws to
be
>> able to have armed response teams available when they are most
needed.
>
>Let's see. Finland has about one legally owned civilian firearm per two
>citizens. This roughly comparable to the amount of guns in the USA.
>
>Do you see subgun-armed police at the Helsinki airport. No.
>Is there a special SWAT-type police unit? Yes. One. For the entire
>country.
>Is there a special army anti-terrorist unit? No.
>When was the last time a policeman was shot in the line of duty?
January.
>By a danish criminal. The incident before that was in the 60's.
>Were the streets flooded with assault rifle-toting soldiers after that?
>No.
>Compare to UK:
>I was in a conference in Londonderry (or Derry, if you prefer -- I
don't
>care) spring '97.
>
>Did I see truckloads of cops with MP5's at Heathrow, Gatwick, Belfast
>and Derry airports? Yes.
>Was a policewoman shot not half a mile away while I was in conference?
>Yes.
>Were the streets flooded with assault rifle-toting soldiers after that?
>Yes.

Actually if you live in the Republic of Ireland rather than the North of
Ireland you are extremely unlikely to see a gun most of your life.  The
only one I've ever even been near was a hunting rifle years ago. The
police
are unarmed here for historical reasons.  The main one being that their
predecessors (the Royal Irish Constabulary) were armed and it was
decided
to have an unarmed police force to make a distinction between the RIC
and
the new police force.  

Its very rare for a policeman to be killed by gunfire here (or any other
method).  The last one was back in 1995 when an bunch of IRA bank
robbers
shot one for no particular reason other than he caught up with them and
was
unarmed.  Before that it was 1984.

If you go almost any part of the UK other than N.Ireland you're unlikely
to
see many guns either.  I think most people have a vague idea of the
situation up there (to some degree at least) and the fact that theres
been
guerrila warfare going on for the last few decades.  I really don't see
it
as being comparable since the general populace is not armed.  If it were
there might have been a lot more killing.  

This is getting very off-topic all the same.

>
>-- 
>maxxon@swob.dna.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)	    | A pig who doesn't
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