Re: [MISC] [OT] Bring and Battle

Tom spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> >Don't need a ref. Unless you have players who can't agree to sort 
> >things out themselves.
> 
> You do if you are the only person who knows the rules.  The people
that 
> I have gamed with have played SGII, and none of them liked it enough
to 
> bother buying the rules, let alone learning them.  They were willing 
> enough to play if I ran a game, but otherwise...no.

I'm sorry your encounters haven't led you to meet a group that is 
interested enough in trying new things to learn some new rules.  

> >> You can't do that with Stargrunt.
> >
> >Pardon? I don't have a problem with that with SG2.
> 
> It's not as easy as it is with, say, Full Thrust.  With FT, you can go

> up to a total stranger and start playing.  I've done it.  With SGII, 
> it's difficult.

Harder. Not impossible though. 
 
> >  That, and its total lack of local 
> >> popularity, are why I have given up on it.
> >
> >I'm sure that is how many good gaming systems, and many good ideas 
> >have given way to the mediocrity of the systems with mass (witness 
> >Microsoft). 
> >
> 
> See, this is what I mean by arrogance.

Pardon? I ask you where that contains any arrogance. It was simply an 
observation of how many good ideas lack marketing or aren't 
distributed by a company with market share enough to make them appeal 
(before any discussion of technical merit) just by who releases them. 
GW and Microsoft both fall under this situation - they release it, 
many will want it before knowing what it is. They do, BTW, make some 
good products amidst a sea of mediocre ones. They don't do it all 
wrong, but they do tend to settle for mediocrity.

  Popular does not always mean 
> bad.	Or good, for that matter.....  Yes, the 40K rules have more
holes 
> than a piece of Swiss Cheese.  And yes, there are a lot more people 
> playing 40K then there are playing SGII.  There's probably a reason
for 
> that.

I don't know enough about 40K to identify all its holes, just some 
rather glaring ones. 

As for the reasons people play GW, probably more than one. But IBM 
would never have predicted that they'd be knocked off by a little 
know guy like Bill Gates and everyone would have said "there's 
probably a reason IBM is King". Well guess what? GW may find 
themselves the victim of a giant killer with good ideas. (Go Jon T ! 
).  

As an aside, having a choice between gaming with 20 people who enjoy 
40K and 4 who enjoy SG2, I find the 4 who enjoy SG2 are closer to my 
mindset as a rule (and tend to be older and more mature). That isn't 
arrogance, that's just knowing ones tastes and realizing some games 
are better suited to younger folk - colourful, exciting, not overly 
concerned with realism, competitive, etc. 

> I just want to have fun.  Taking things really seriously is not part
of 
> that.  Winning or losing doesn't matter.  Playing does.

Agreed - I just wish the 40Kers I've met could understand that too. 
 
> >I feel I'm being tarred with someone else's sins here. So I'll say 
> >that such a generalization does no one any credit. 
> 
> You are right, and I apologize.  Generalizations are enver a good
thing.	

No problem. We all say things then think about the full ramifications 
later.... (I plead guilty here too). 

> I was just remembering the recent "discussion" on r.g.m.m.  The SGII 
> advocactes had attitude to spare.

Did we send John A? (Kidding John!) Seriously, email is a 
context-lacking medium that encourages people to hear things that 
aren't there and shoot there mouths off. And its hard to see the wry 
grin that sometimes accompanies it. (a lesson for us all - take a 
pill!). If we were all a tad calmer and more open minded, we'd all 
get along better with less stress. 

 "...maybe I'm just lucky in 
> that I game with adults who don't take pushing around little metal
toys 
> THAT seriously." that got to me.

Okay, even I'll admit that could be taken as a snide comment. But 
don't let some email from our resident sarcast get you worked up. 
He means well (and he's said that before). 

  So I don't game exactly like you 
> do...does that make me immature?  To take Shakespeare entirely out of 
> context, the play's the thing, people.

Agreed. And maybe the point is no-one should make this more than it 
is - a game. We differ as to what we like to game, and sometimes we 
shoot off our mouths (no comments about me from the list lurkers), 
but we should all take things with a grain of salt and try to be 
insensitive - its the only appropriate way to interpret list 
correspondence. Don't take it personal. Play the game, have fun, and 
if you don't agree with someone on the list, live with your 
differences. Live and let live. 

Tom. 

 
 
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Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup
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