Re: [MISC] [OT] Bring and Battle

Tom spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> Scenarios are a lot of fun, and I enjoy playing them, but they take 
> work.  They take time to design them; time that I do not have.

That's why you try to build up a collection of scenario cards so you 
can just pull a couple of cards and run a battle. 

  Plus, I 
> have found that, all too often, I would be the one designing the 
> scenario, and therefore would be the guy stuck with the Ref cap.

Don't need a ref. Unless you have players who can't agree to sort 
things out themselves.

 I  don't like running games.  I like playing them.  I like the 
luxury of 
> being able to pick up a box of tanks, go to the local Hobby Shop, sit 
> down and play.
> 
> You can't do that with Stargrunt.

Pardon? I don't have a problem with that with SG2. Once you have 
experience at the game, and some mission cards, you can eyeball 
forces and get a good idea of their relative merits. And no points 
system is infallible anyway. (I've seen many, and all can be abused 
by munchkins). Real battle doesn't give you the luxury of picking 
even sides. The issue isn't win-lose, its how well you lead your 
troops and how much fun you had. If you play an unbalanced game, but 
score enemy casualties out of all proportion, then you should be 
pleased. If you lose, it can be taken in stride. It is a GAME after 
all. SG2 can be 'bring and battle' especially if you start organizing 
yourself - put the figures for a unit in a little box with a card 
detailing their stats and then you don't have to write out the stats 
for the unit each time you arrive at a battle. 

  That, and its total lack of local 
> popularity, are why I have given up on it.

I'm sure that is how many good gaming systems, and many good ideas 
have given way to the mediocrity of the systems with mass (witness 
Microsoft). 

  I CAN do that with a lot of 
> other games.	That's why I still play them.

I find, if I want to play a quick game, I play a board game - little 
or no prep, lots of fun. If I want to wargame, I accept that some 
minimal prep is a good thing. If I want to really enjoy myself, I 
like a thought out, detailed scenario, which means work. But I can 
enjoy myself at a bring and battle too - I just don't take the 
results as seriously because it might be unbalanced. Judgement goes a 
long way here.	

> You know, annoying though GW gamers are, I can say this much for them:
  
> They are at least a hell of a lot less arrogant than GZG gamers....

I feel I'm being tarred with someone else's sins here. So I'll say 
that such a generalization does no one any credit. We are a varied 
lot, some with strong opinions, some bombastic, some even a little 
sarcastic, but the one thing GZG gamers seem to possess is a lot of 
'its just a game' as an attitude. We can usually realize that 
judgement and a bit of good spirit and maturity go a long way to 
solving our problems, not rules, points, or official ex cathedra 
pronouncements. 

And, for the record, most of the WH40K players I've met have suffered 
from the minor folly of youth - they are exuberant, munchkinish, 
quite opinionated within their own little WH world, and quite 'gamey' 
(as opposed to interested in any degree of realism), and many seem 
bound by 'the rules' hard and fast. By contrast, most GZG players 
seem to like 'the feel' of the game (although some have the 'its like 
this in the rules, so why change it' bug). Most seem to not be 
munchkins, and are not gamey - more realism inclined. Now, we may 
occaisionally bash the 40K guys a little too much. In reality, they 
are likely the next gen of GZG players as they grow disillusioned and 
get older and more interested in the 'flavour' of the game and less 
in the 'rules' or in the gamey aspect. 

As an aside, having said that, I'm sure many WH40K players will be 
quite amazed by what I here is in the new version of the rules.... 
sounds like they basically stole (okay, independently developed?) a 
bunch of conceptual ideas and systems that sound *perilously* close 
to those used in FMA and the focus of FMA systems like Stargrunt. It 
will be interesting to see how this hits the WH40K community....

(And I guess, like those Microsoft has 'borrowed' ideas from, Jon T 
should be complemented that GW is 'learning' from him.....)

Tom
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Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup
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